English "Hangers" Around 1580-1615?

[RenJunkie]

Hi gang,

I'm re-purposing a damaged blade and after cutting off the severely damaged part at the end, and I'm left with about a 25-ish inch blade which I plan to make a hanger out of. I've got the guard type locked down for it (a very simple one lol), but I'm not sure about the tip shape. I can find lots of post 1630 hangers and short, single-edged swords, but much less for 1580 to 1615. Even fewer that show the tip rather than the hilt. Does anyone know of a good resource that shows these?

For the project at hand, I'm not sure if a curve that comes up to meet the straight spine is more appropriate or if the spine should come down to meet the edge at a "spearpoint" like you see on many of the later ones. Or even if one is more appropriate that the other lol.

Anyone have thoughts, insights, and resources?

Thanks!
Chris

[Johann ColdIron]

Clipped like a bowie knife is fairly popular in Europe but less so in England.

This is a bit later but blade style is probably still relevant.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpost. ... stcount=51

Tipped like a late period cavalry saber is often seen as well.

http://myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.29968.html

Either way they are much more of a hacking weapon with the occasional stab as needed. Generally single edge but can have a bit of false edge at the tip.

[Mark Millman]

Dear Chris,

I don't know of any single good resource for this. I suspect you'll have to look through museum catalogues, both on line and on paper, to get your answer. Despite the gap, the variety of blade styles seems to be consistent before and after the period you mention, so you're probably pretty safe if you choose anything from the decade or two preceding and following it.

For what it's worth, my experience suggests that the tip shape depends on the width and curvature of the blade. You seem to imply that the blade is single-edged. If so, and if the blade is narrow (up to 1-1/4" or so) and straight, then a symmetrical point with or without a sharpened back at the end seems to be most common. If it's narrow and curved, then a symmetrical point as above or a tip that curves from the front edge to the spine--again, with or without sharpening on the spine side at the end--seem about equally common. If the blade is wide, then a variety of asymmetrical tips appear, including single and multiple scallops at the tip.

Two additional threads from myArmoury.com may help: John Smith's Falchion and Darnley's Falchion. You might also look through their albums for examples.

I hope this proves useful.

Best,

Mark Millman

[RenJunkie]

Thanks for the suggestions and links!

I do feel a bit silly. Not only because I failed to mention the blade is straight (MRL falchion) but because I totally forgot about the images of Smith with his sword, and that is literally the ideal years of where I'm trying to place this project. Though, with the straight blade, I think Darnley's would be closer.

I'm still undecided, in no small part because if I clip the blade as severely as in the images, it's going to be about a 20-inch blade. But, at least I've got ideas to work with.

Thanks!
Chris

[Johann ColdIron]

Pics of the blade might help at this point.

The trim possibilities really depend on how the cutting edge transitions into the spine and where the damage starts.

[RenJunkie]

I can't get pics at the moment, but it's this one:

https://www.museumreplicas.com/falchion-sword

It's just cut down to about a 25 inch blade to remove the severe damage. It's still in its rough-from-the-angle-grinder state from when I got rid of the mangled bit a few months ago. If it wasn't wavy from the cutting wheel, you'd have to look twice to notice it's different from the one in the pic. Since it's appropriate for the period, I think I'm going to do minimal changes to for the moment. That way it still has enough length that I can change it later. One thing I'm struggling with in deciding what I want to do is whether or not I should use it to try and learn how to grind a distal taper; it's thick all the way down. Once I get the hilt modified (which is 90% of why I took this sword off my brother's hands) and a new grip made (I just don't like the proportions of it in my hand) I'll finish the blade. In the meantime, I wanted to be sure I didn't keep or make a period-inappropriate stabby end as I want to use this on site as an example of one of the sword types seen in early 17thC Virginia that wasn't a rapier or basket hilt.

And if I like it as my heavy, slow-movement solo drill sword I may leave it a chonker lol.

After all of that will come a new scabbard for it....

Thanks!
Chris

[Cap'n Atli]

Swords & Blades of the American Revolution, by George C. Neumann has a number of pictures of English hangers that we used to liberate ourselves from said mother country. Also, of note, there is some confusion with the terms "cutlass" and "hanger" being used interchangeably during the same period.

"Nomenclature is the first defense of the pedant." (UAVTBoW)

The book should be easily available through the Inter-library Loan system. (ILL)

[RenJunkie]

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll have a look at it. Any suggestions on how to figure out what style elements and shapes fit my timeframe and which are too late for it?

Thanks!
Chris