When was the globose visored bascinet fashionable?

Thaddeus · Post by **Thaddeus** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:49 pm

I have a very nice bascinet with a globose visor mounted on it.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/thaddeus/Klap1.jpg
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/thaddeus/Klap2.gif
I want to build a harness that is appropriate for the helm, i.e. correct time frame and nationality. However I have not been able to find any iconography with this particular helmet in association with a particular harness. I very much like Gaston's globose corazina (wrong as it may be) and splinted arms and legs. Is that a correct appearance - I mean the overall line not the details of the fauld, or would a slightly earlier coat of plates or pair of plates be more appropriate.

Thank you oh wizards of research.

[This message has been edited by Thaddeus (edited 02-10-2003).]

Erik Schmidt · Post by **Erik Schmidt** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 1:35 am

The best area to portray with such a visor is Germanic, where they were common, but you could also do north Italian and some other areas if you can find proof of their use.

Typically, I see the globose klappvisor as being in use into the late 1370's, at which time the pigface comes into use. By the 1380's it seems the pigface is dominant.

I have not come across an example of a corazzina from before 1385, but I haven't researched Italian armour much yet.

Depending on what time period you choose (ie, pre 1350, 1350's, 1360' or 1370's) your torso protection can be either a CoP(up to 1360's), covered breast and fauld(1360's and onwards), white(uncovered)breast and covered fauld(1370's and onwards) or something covered with a jupon so we have no idea what it is.

The above approximate time ranges and suggestions are for Germanic armour.

Their armour was not big on limb defences like the English, so variations on splint or unarticulated plate is the go.

For good SCA protection and some metal showing, I would suggest the 1370's.
You could go for an uncovered breastplate with covered fauld. Please don't ask what they did for back protection. I don't know

A small spaulder attached to the shoulder strap from the breast or shoulder protection integral with the upper arm protection is the best shoulder protection in the Germanic areas.
Arm protection varied a lot.
For legs, the internal plint cuisses, unarticulted knee cop and Germaninc triple external splint lower legs was usual.

So, what is taking your fancy?

When you start to figure it out, I have a good pics of effigies that might help to illustrate what it looks like.

Erik

William Frisbee · Post by **William Frisbee** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 11:34 am

Jebus Thadd, that's one fine bascinet you got there.

Thaddeus · Post by **Thaddeus** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 12:18 pm

Erik,
Thank you for your response. I am thinking 1370's being influenced in a large part by the Pistoia alter piece (c.1376). However I am working on a german persona as my impression was that the globose visor and the center mount visor were both germanic styles. I would like to do either a cop or a globose and fauld although at this stage in the game I will be covering upper torso and arms with a jupon, so I will recycle much of my current kit. For legs I like the idea you present. Articulations are one of those pesky details of armouring that I have never mastered. And internal splinting will allow me to be frugal in my usage of materials until I can afford real armour (tempered 1050) for steel fighting.

I would very much appreciate any and all images that you can spare bandwidth to send.I am particularly interested in details of the tri part splinted greaves/lowers.

Thaddeus von OrlamÃ¼nde

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 2:36 pm

If you have a copy of Ospreys "German Medieval Armies 1300-1500" theres an effigy of Burkhardt von Steinberg circa 1379(1397 date in the book is a typo) on page 18 that shows a prety good view of the Germanic style 3 splint greaves. It's also got a good example of the studded arm defenses, as well as one heck of an interesting breastplate w/faulds.

------------------
Otto von Aachen
Kingdom of the Outlands, Canton of Hawks Hollow

Erik Schmidt · Post by **Erik Schmidt** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 6:50 pm

The center mount is what characterises the klappvisor. Globose or flat visors where in use throughout Europe before the pigface came to be. There are so few representations of them left, that it's hard to say if there were strong regional differences in the overall shape. The center mounted types tended to be smaller and cover less of the face.

Anyway, there are indications in the fresco at Avio that they were also in use in Northern Italy around 1350.

I've sent you a picture of what seems to be a fairly typical knightly armour of around 1375 as there are effigies of this type, of knights who dies from 1369 up to 1381. It's as I described in the fisrt reply.

Try to look up the one Edmund refers to, the fauld is similar to one from the Pistoia art.
Also on page 20 of the same book there is another german effigy, one of only two I know which show the klappvisor. It also has the triple splint lower leg, but with a jupon and gutter style forearm defence.

Erik

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 7:40 pm

"If you have a copy of Ospreys "German Medieval Armies 1300-1500" theres an effigy of Burkhardt von Steinberg circa 1379(1397 date in the book is a typo) on page 18 that shows a prety good view of the Germanic style 3 splint greaves. It's also got a good example of the studded arm defenses, as well as one heck of an interesting breastplate w/faulds."

Thaddeus, I have a copy of that book and if you want to take a look at it you are welcome to borrow it. Just remeind me to bring it along next time we will be getting together somewhere.
John

Thaddeus · Post by **Thaddeus** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 10:16 pm

Thad would be great John. Perhaps I can trade one of my early period ospreys - as a hostage against the safe return of your book.

William Frisbee · Post by **William Frisbee** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 5:12 am

Actually Thaddeus, you can have my copy of the same book. Free of charge.

I've moved away from the Germanic stuff, and have no need of it. I can get it to you next fighter practice...

Thaddeus · Post by **Thaddeus** » Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:06 am

Thanks Bill, I will certainly accept. Erik Thanks for the images. I did actually have a large copy of the Marshal Huglin von Schoneck but the volume cites no time frame and was not directly related to armour hence had completely slipped my mind til you sent that. There then followed a marathon book hunt which had my wife in stitches.
It is interesting to note on the Voit von Rieneck effigy that he appears to be wearing a bascinet over a coif rather than having an attached aventail.
Thanks again now I havea definate direction to head in.