Weapon life cycle

Microsoft_Bob · Post by **Microsoft_Bob** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 4:23 am

(I'm new, be kind)

My basic question: What time period/location/war would you suggest for the most wide display of weapons and armor? Read on for clarification.

I'm working on a project that requires that I accurately portray a war or set of battles within a person's fighting lifetime (30 years on the extreme outside, I'm guessing). This is open-ended in the extreme.

In order to make it interesting for myself and hopefully others, I'm trying to find an era with a wide variety of weapons in use. Was there ever a period of quick innovation in medieval military weapons? Note that they don't have to be used by common soldiers, just that they were in existence, and someone had used them. I'm especially interested in novel weapons-- or weapons with non-obvious uses. As an example, i've heard (unsubstantiated-- haven't found a period source) that the zweihander was most often used to cut the heads off of pikes, rather than in battle directly with other people

The main time period and area I'm working with is Eastern Europe, and a (900ish BCE to) pre-firearm time period, however if someone can steer me towards a better epoch outside of this, I will definitely consider it.

I should say that this is a vanity project--Not school, nor anything else related. I'm having problems focusing on a single era, due to the fragmented set of information I've accrued in the past month, and not knowing where to look has hurt a lot

I am also interested in military tactics from the requested period. If you have any links or book suggestions off-hand, it would be very much appreciated.

Thank you if you can help,
Microsoft_Bob

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 6:11 am

Bob,

When you say pre-gunpowder days, do you mean prior to the time that the gun superceded melee weapons in battle, or do you mean prior to the first appearance of gunpowder on the battlefield? Gunpowder can be documented in Europe as early as the mid 13th century(1260, if i remember correctly), and cannon were being used in siege's on a limited basis during the 14th century. In addition, the first Handgonnes appeared during the mid 14th century, though they had very little effect on military thinking or tactics at the time due to their general ineffectiveness.

As for a time period that had a wide range of weapons being used militarily, I would probably be inclined towards the 14th and 15th centuries, since armour design changed so radically during that period, and weapons designs changed to keep pace(and im biased towards the transitional period anyway, hehe). In general, you could find all sorts of different polearms in use, longbows, crossbows, handgonnes, great weapons of various types, maces, war hammers, flails, and of course a variety of swords, ranging from the Zweihander to single hand arming swords. Cannon were gaining importance in sieges and ending the days of the supremecy of the castle, and the gun was starting to appear on the battlefield in greater numbers, but had not yet become the equal of melee weapons or bows in most circumstances.

As for tactics and such, i would suggest you pick up a copy of Phillip Contamines "War in the Middle Ages". He covers the whole period thouroughly, and as far as i know it is the latest scholarly work on the subject to be printed in English.

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Otto von Aachen
Kingdom of the Outlands, Canton of Hawks Hollow

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 9:32 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Microsoft_Bob:
[BAs an example, i've heard (unsubstantiated-- haven't found a period source) that the zweihander was most often used to cut the heads off of pikes, rather than in battle directly with other people

Thank you if you can help,
Microsoft_Bob[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

First you cut off the heads of the pike, get closer, repeat.

c1500 or so is a really interesting era. There was a lot of change in many areas.

Microsoft_Bob · Post by **Microsoft_Bob** » Wed Mar 05, 2003 2:50 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Edmund Greyfox:
Bob,

When you say pre-gunpowder days, do you mean prior to the time that the gun superceded melee weapons in battle, or do you mean prior to the first appearance of gunpowder on the battlefield?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry, I meant when guns superceded the use of other weapons. Prior to that, from what I've read, they were so sparse as to add very little to the overall battle.

Thanks for the suggestion. That is exactly what I'm looking for. Is there any region that had significantly more varied weapons, or is Eastern Europe (Prussia-centric) an okay focus?

Thanks a lot,
Microsoft_Bob

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 6:36 am

Northeastern Europe should work out fine, if your talking mostly about what is modern Germany and Poland. I really don't know much about Russian,Hungarian or Byzantine equipment, so im not sure what was in use in those regions.

During the 14th century and part of the 15th the Teutonic Knights were still running roughshod over Poland, Prussia and Lithuania, and there is a fair amount of information in print on their equipment and the various wars they fought.

If you really want to mess with some unusual weapons and tactics, take a look at the information on the Hussite Rebellion in Bohemia and Czechloslavakia(parts of the HRE at the time) during the early part of the 15th century. The Hussites took the concept of the flail about as far as it could go, and also created something called the Wagonburg-Basically a large number of wagon's pulled end to end, then chained together and used as a sort of semi mobile fortress. Think of the settlers circling their wagons in the old westerns and you have the basic concept.
The Hussites would then take up positions standing in the bed of the wagons or between them, wielding huge flails, polearms, various missle weapons, etc. Im not certain, but i seem to remember seeing a reference that sometimes they even had small cannon mounted in some of the wagons.
I do know they managed to hand the Imperial army a string of major defeats, even though they were usually outnumbered. Unfortunately, there isn't as much material available on the Hussites in English, so you may have difficulty putting together enough material unless you happen to be able to speak/read German.

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Otto von Aachen
Kingdom of the Outlands, Canton of Hawks Hollow

Bob H · Post by **Bob H** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 1:49 pm

I think the first part (including Crecy and Poitiers) of the Hundred Years War would be a good setting. You have almost Viking-like raids by the English on the coastal towns of western France, the brutal chevauchées, the introduction of the longbow as a viable tool of war, some limited cannon useage, foreign mercenaries-especially crossbowmen, traditional mounted knights fighting in the grand chivalric traditions, dismounted knights, tourneys á outrance (with sharp weapons of war), ad infinitum. Lots of political jostling in France, new strategies (i.e., Edward's positioning of his troops in the hedgeworks along the only road accessable to the French), manhunts and mayhem on routed troops and stragglers, attacks on the baggage trains, and sieges. The armour in this, the early part of the "transitional" period, has wide variety which includes padded cloth armours, maille, cuirbollei, and various levels of steel plate coverage. Visual heraldry is in its early heyday, but takes a more descriptively simple form than it later assumed.

Osprey has several books on the era that will give you an overview, and for a primary source, Froissart's "Chronicles" is available online here: http://www.nipissingu.ca/department/history/muhlberger/froissart/tales.htm
Barbara Tuchman's "A Distant Mirror" is not universally liked, but should give you more of a modern writer's feel for the topic.

There is a great deal of easily accessable information on the place and time written in or translated to English, so a knowledge of other languages isn't as crucial as for other studies (unless you're going to great depths).