I like the saxon lyre that Patrick constructed, and am moved to build my own. However! I am wondering, what is the most strings ever attached to these at a time? I would feel rather limited with only six notes, as there are so many great songs I already know and would like to play on one.
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Aye, lads & lasses.
Saxon Lyre - Motivated and Wondering
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Syrus Leigh
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freiman the minstrel
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Syrus,
yes, the Only Lyres I have ever seen have been made with six strings. I have seen reproductions of ancient Hebrew harps made with seven or eight, but all the repro Saxon Lyres have been made with six.
Don't let that stop you, though. Variations on period themes are allowed, as long as you never, ever present them as "doctrin".
Also, you should be able to play most all of the "SCA favorites" with just six strings. The trick is tuning. I am still learning to play the one I made, but I do believe that it is possible, or even easy (with practice) to play a good, solid root chord (call t "C"), a four chord (call it "F"), and a five chord (call it "G").
This will cover all the "campfire favorites" like (shudder) Barret's Privateers, Born on the List Field, Mattie Groves, Machereson's Lament, Geordie Gordon, and all that other stuff like that, if that's what you are asking. Ninety percent of all the "folkie" type stuff is "3 chord johnny" stuff. Incidently, all these pieces I listed are modern music, at least the way they are done in the SCA.
It wont be effortless, you will have to learn to play a new instrument, and that means daily practice.
I want to figure out how the durned thing was used in period, and reproduce it. I am experiencing a lot more frustration than I expected. I expect that the thing will teach me that it's a lot more sophisticated than I expected.
Please, some of the more period types, please chime in here.
f
yes, the Only Lyres I have ever seen have been made with six strings. I have seen reproductions of ancient Hebrew harps made with seven or eight, but all the repro Saxon Lyres have been made with six.
Don't let that stop you, though. Variations on period themes are allowed, as long as you never, ever present them as "doctrin".
Also, you should be able to play most all of the "SCA favorites" with just six strings. The trick is tuning. I am still learning to play the one I made, but I do believe that it is possible, or even easy (with practice) to play a good, solid root chord (call t "C"), a four chord (call it "F"), and a five chord (call it "G").
This will cover all the "campfire favorites" like (shudder) Barret's Privateers, Born on the List Field, Mattie Groves, Machereson's Lament, Geordie Gordon, and all that other stuff like that, if that's what you are asking. Ninety percent of all the "folkie" type stuff is "3 chord johnny" stuff. Incidently, all these pieces I listed are modern music, at least the way they are done in the SCA.
It wont be effortless, you will have to learn to play a new instrument, and that means daily practice.
I want to figure out how the durned thing was used in period, and reproduce it. I am experiencing a lot more frustration than I expected. I expect that the thing will teach me that it's a lot more sophisticated than I expected.
Please, some of the more period types, please chime in here.
f
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Syrus Leigh
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Patrick
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In general, since SCA music is not authentic to the period, I think it would be okay, within reason, to modify the instrument's design.
What I mean is that medieval and dark ages music is going to be completely foreign to our ears. Some of us would like it, some would not. It is an artifact of a very different culture. Since what the SCA is doing is more along the lines of trying to recreate the entertainments of the medieval world in a way that is enjoyable today, there is not a real emphasis on the music and other "bardic" entertainments being 100% accurate.
I have been tempted to make another lyre with 8 strings, but I have other projects to get to first. With 8 strings, you get an entire diatonic octave, which lets you have the melodies of many folk songs. 6 strings will do some, but those last 2 notes make a real difference for modern tunes.
Like Freiman said, it is okay to deviate from the period model (heck, I used plywood for the soundboard!) but don't present it as a perfect recreation of an original.
I'm really glad you like the article.
-Patrick
What I mean is that medieval and dark ages music is going to be completely foreign to our ears. Some of us would like it, some would not. It is an artifact of a very different culture. Since what the SCA is doing is more along the lines of trying to recreate the entertainments of the medieval world in a way that is enjoyable today, there is not a real emphasis on the music and other "bardic" entertainments being 100% accurate.
I have been tempted to make another lyre with 8 strings, but I have other projects to get to first. With 8 strings, you get an entire diatonic octave, which lets you have the melodies of many folk songs. 6 strings will do some, but those last 2 notes make a real difference for modern tunes.
Like Freiman said, it is okay to deviate from the period model (heck, I used plywood for the soundboard!) but don't present it as a perfect recreation of an original.
I'm really glad you like the article.
-Patrick
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Syrus Leigh
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Patrick
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Well, if you want so many strings, why not make a simplified harp? (That is like #12 on my list of future musical projects, so I can offer encouragement, but little practical advice.)
A surprisingly good source of ideas for these sorts of projects is Dennis Waring's book _Cool Carboard Instruments_. The use of cardboard is pretty cheesy, but the ideas are based around using a fairly fragile resonating chamber, which I figure I could make from the 1/8" plywood (since I have so much of it left from the lyre project) and it would look more appropriate.
Another possibility if you want lots of strings, is to make a psaltery. Some folks call these "lap harps" and they are generally sold under that name. There are several neat variations at this site: http://www.geocities.com/athens/atrium/6331/luthiery/harps.htm
I find myself wanting to make all sorts of neato things, now. This seems like a very addictive hobby. Wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to make a living from doing something this fun?
-Patrick
A surprisingly good source of ideas for these sorts of projects is Dennis Waring's book _Cool Carboard Instruments_. The use of cardboard is pretty cheesy, but the ideas are based around using a fairly fragile resonating chamber, which I figure I could make from the 1/8" plywood (since I have so much of it left from the lyre project) and it would look more appropriate.
Another possibility if you want lots of strings, is to make a psaltery. Some folks call these "lap harps" and they are generally sold under that name. There are several neat variations at this site: http://www.geocities.com/athens/atrium/6331/luthiery/harps.htm
I find myself wanting to make all sorts of neato things, now. This seems like a very addictive hobby. Wouldn't it be wonderful to be able to make a living from doing something this fun?
-Patrick
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michaeljking
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Lyre playing
Hi,
I am bit late joining in this discussion,
I make umonst other things Anglo Saxon Lyres and Finnish Style Kanteles.
The lyre is primarily a strummed instrument, rather than a plucked instrument, its is meant for singing with. All you have to do is learn a few of the damping finger patterns (see my website below) and you are off.
The lyre (5th to 9th century)was the instrument that everyone could play(how different to today!) the skill that was harder was singing!
I originally researched Finnish Kanteles because they still have runic singing/playing tradition and the 5 string Kantele is played with the same tunings as recorded by Hucbald(C.880) for the Lyre
www.michaeljking.com
I am bit late joining in this discussion,
I make umonst other things Anglo Saxon Lyres and Finnish Style Kanteles.
The lyre is primarily a strummed instrument, rather than a plucked instrument, its is meant for singing with. All you have to do is learn a few of the damping finger patterns (see my website below) and you are off.
The lyre (5th to 9th century)was the instrument that everyone could play(how different to today!) the skill that was harder was singing!
I originally researched Finnish Kanteles because they still have runic singing/playing tradition and the 5 string Kantele is played with the same tunings as recorded by Hucbald(C.880) for the Lyre
www.michaeljking.com
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Gaston de Clermont
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Hi Michael,
Your site has some pretty instruments, and they sound very nice.
This, which is a link off Michael's web page is difficult reading, but one of the most interesting things I've come across in quite a while: http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/harmony/hex1.html
I've certainly seen in manuscripts that the lyre tends to be played with a hand behind the strings, which would work as a damper for the right hand to strum. You sound very certain that this is how they were played when they were in vogue, and I'm wondering what gives you such confidence. Is it simply what works best for you, or is there some documentation we should be looking for?
Your site has some pretty instruments, and they sound very nice.
This, which is a link off Michael's web page is difficult reading, but one of the most interesting things I've come across in quite a while: http://www.medieval.org/emfaq/harmony/hex1.html
I've certainly seen in manuscripts that the lyre tends to be played with a hand behind the strings, which would work as a damper for the right hand to strum. You sound very certain that this is how they were played when they were in vogue, and I'm wondering what gives you such confidence. Is it simply what works best for you, or is there some documentation we should be looking for?
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michaeljking
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Lyre
All the Lyre bridges found are of the narrow type that makes individual plucking of the strings less likely than strumming, also the type of soundbox is very responsive to playing of this kind, I use my fingers but you could also use a horn plectrum.
We know that is is almost certain that block and strum was the technique used by looking at all the manuscript art that survived (the Vespasian Psalter for eg), as well as modern instruments from Siberia to Africa that use this method of playing to this day( like the Lyres of ancient greece)
From the tale of the poet Cædmon we know that the lyre was primarily an accompanyment to song.
Using techniques from finnish Kantele playing I can play music in major and minor keys, tunes, as well as chord accompanyments, its really more versitile than it first seems.
(I have based my work on the writings of Dr Graeme Lawson of Cambridge university who has reserched all the finds do far and has written extensively about it. (see groves music dictionary/anglo saxon burial reports) He has also published a tape and was the music behind the animated Beowulf made a few years ago.)
We know that is is almost certain that block and strum was the technique used by looking at all the manuscript art that survived (the Vespasian Psalter for eg), as well as modern instruments from Siberia to Africa that use this method of playing to this day( like the Lyres of ancient greece)
From the tale of the poet Cædmon we know that the lyre was primarily an accompanyment to song.
Using techniques from finnish Kantele playing I can play music in major and minor keys, tunes, as well as chord accompanyments, its really more versitile than it first seems.
(I have based my work on the writings of Dr Graeme Lawson of Cambridge university who has reserched all the finds do far and has written extensively about it. (see groves music dictionary/anglo saxon burial reports) He has also published a tape and was the music behind the animated Beowulf made a few years ago.)
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michaeljking
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lyre tuning
The pentatonic scale might seem to be a good solution, but I don't find the pentatonic scale as useful as the Diatonic scale, I find it too distict, It has lots of use in modern times with kanteles and steiner type Lyres with music therapy though.
The music treatise I mentioned in my other posting gives the basic lyre tuning which is the same type of tuning as found in the Jorvic panpipe, and the same note relationship I have used in my Lyres.
Looking at the Parallel baltic runic tradition with its regional variations(they ocasionally use pentatonic tuning) I am sure there is a lot of justified room for personal interpretation.
If its certainty with a music tradition for music scales, the wind instruments are a better place to look(try wooden Lurs for example)
Or for a really ancient music have a look into the scandinavian Overtone/Willow flutes, these have a tuning that is unchanged and fixed since time began, If you check out Hardanger fiddle or some swedish music you can hear traces of the scales you get when playing one of these
The music treatise I mentioned in my other posting gives the basic lyre tuning which is the same type of tuning as found in the Jorvic panpipe, and the same note relationship I have used in my Lyres.
Looking at the Parallel baltic runic tradition with its regional variations(they ocasionally use pentatonic tuning) I am sure there is a lot of justified room for personal interpretation.
If its certainty with a music tradition for music scales, the wind instruments are a better place to look(try wooden Lurs for example)
Or for a really ancient music have a look into the scandinavian Overtone/Willow flutes, these have a tuning that is unchanged and fixed since time began, If you check out Hardanger fiddle or some swedish music you can hear traces of the scales you get when playing one of these
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Gaston de Clermont
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