1360s neck protection that would be SCA legal and period to Germany
I think the title says it all. I am making an SCA kit based off of effigies of German armor from the 1360s and I currently where a kettle hat and I would like a gorget that actually goes with the kit and is SCA legal. When I am done next spring I hope to achieve a 90% plus correct look for the kit with as few compromises as possible.
Any good suggestions?
Thanks
Flonzy
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1360s neck protection that would be SCA legal and period to
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Tristan vom Schwarzwald
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FrauHirsch
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by flonzy:
<B>1360s neck protection that would be SCA legal and period to GermanyAny good suggestions?
Thanks
Flonzy
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Though it won't help with your kettle hat, I built mine so that it hangs under my avantail. Its heavy leather with the legal SCA padding and hangs from straps from the bottom of the helm loosely inside the avantail. I like it much better than the typical gorget. The neck hole is large enough to go over my head. I never forget to put it on. Its always there. While not period, it is completely invisible and SCA legal. Don't you usually see gorgets with bevors with kettle hats? Or nothing?
Aren't there often hoods under the kettle hats? If so, the neck protection could be built into the neck area of a hood, but having it attached to the bottom of the helm helps hold it away from the neck (which helps satisfy the marshals that a thrust or hard blow will be stopped).
Juliana
<B>1360s neck protection that would be SCA legal and period to GermanyAny good suggestions?
Thanks
Flonzy
</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Though it won't help with your kettle hat, I built mine so that it hangs under my avantail. Its heavy leather with the legal SCA padding and hangs from straps from the bottom of the helm loosely inside the avantail. I like it much better than the typical gorget. The neck hole is large enough to go over my head. I never forget to put it on. Its always there. While not period, it is completely invisible and SCA legal. Don't you usually see gorgets with bevors with kettle hats? Or nothing?
Aren't there often hoods under the kettle hats? If so, the neck protection could be built into the neck area of a hood, but having it attached to the bottom of the helm helps hold it away from the neck (which helps satisfy the marshals that a thrust or hard blow will be stopped).
Juliana
Hello!
I think suggestion of Frau Hirsch of integrating the neckdefence with coif sounded sensible enough.
Just a gut feeling, but my knowledge of effigies hasn´t shown kettle hats just bascinets or variations of great helms.
Hence you may have trouble in achieving total accuracy.
(I don´t think they were not used, but I think it was not something to put on a effigy of a lord to show his status. They were and are a cool alternative for helmet)
Good luck with your endeavor. I trust we hear what you come up with.
Mikael
I think suggestion of Frau Hirsch of integrating the neckdefence with coif sounded sensible enough.
Just a gut feeling, but my knowledge of effigies hasn´t shown kettle hats just bascinets or variations of great helms.
Hence you may have trouble in achieving total accuracy.
(I don´t think they were not used, but I think it was not something to put on a effigy of a lord to show his status. They were and are a cool alternative for helmet)
Good luck with your endeavor. I trust we hear what you come up with.
Mikael
Mikael
Your right I am not basing my armor off of one effigy, and I don't see kettles in any of them I just like the kettle
. I am going for more of a soldiers look instead of a knight.
The armor I am going for is:
Kettle helm over a riveted maille coif
Wisby CoP over riveted maille over an arming coat
Splint arms and legs including greaves like Gunthor von Schwarzburg has (It may be earlier than 1360s but not sure). I need to make the splints still, but that will be post Pennsic. The last upgrade I will need for them are correct knees and elbows but I tried to cut the leather right to get the approximate shape the period examples have.
Frau Hirsch's idea is not bad, anyone have a period example of a padded hood I could see?
Thanks
Flonzy
Your right I am not basing my armor off of one effigy, and I don't see kettles in any of them I just like the kettle
. I am going for more of a soldiers look instead of a knight.The armor I am going for is:
Kettle helm over a riveted maille coif
Wisby CoP over riveted maille over an arming coat
Splint arms and legs including greaves like Gunthor von Schwarzburg has (It may be earlier than 1360s but not sure). I need to make the splints still, but that will be post Pennsic. The last upgrade I will need for them are correct knees and elbows but I tried to cut the leather right to get the approximate shape the period examples have.
Frau Hirsch's idea is not bad, anyone have a period example of a padded hood I could see?
Thanks
Flonzy
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FrauHirsch
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I think the problem may lie in that the common soldier may not have worn neck protection, so hiding something under your maille coif may be the best option. Is the coif short or does it drape over the shoulders?
I remember seeing documentation for padded and even quilted hoods/coifs at some point in my life, but right now I'm drawing a blank on where...
The hood wouldn't have to be padded, it could just be several layers of linen with the neck protection attached within to the inner layers of linen. If you set it up right you could probably make the neck portion removable for washing the hood.
Mine is somewhat "dog collar-like" but has flaps for the vertibrae and front of the neck that hang down a few inches to satisfy SCA regs.
I've been using mine this way for approx. 15 yrs. I like it also because I don't feel strangled either. (I have short neck.)
Not sure there is a truly period neck solution for the style armor it sounds you are making.
The other option would be to make a brig. style gorget to match the COP. And that could be covered by the coif or a hood. I have one that I use under a greathelm with a chain aventail for rebated steel, and it doesn't show at all under the mail drape (which is pretty big.)
Mine suit was originally geared toward 1370 German, though I don't wear the splint greaves and arms all that much any more and have changed things a bit. It used to have the fitted jupon and hip placket belt with a short alumunum plastron with a loop in front where I could attach chains to the shield and sword. It looked cool 15 yrs ago, but replacement parts and wear have morphed it.
Juliana
I remember seeing documentation for padded and even quilted hoods/coifs at some point in my life, but right now I'm drawing a blank on where...
The hood wouldn't have to be padded, it could just be several layers of linen with the neck protection attached within to the inner layers of linen. If you set it up right you could probably make the neck portion removable for washing the hood.
Mine is somewhat "dog collar-like" but has flaps for the vertibrae and front of the neck that hang down a few inches to satisfy SCA regs.
I've been using mine this way for approx. 15 yrs. I like it also because I don't feel strangled either. (I have short neck.)
Not sure there is a truly period neck solution for the style armor it sounds you are making.
The other option would be to make a brig. style gorget to match the COP. And that could be covered by the coif or a hood. I have one that I use under a greathelm with a chain aventail for rebated steel, and it doesn't show at all under the mail drape (which is pretty big.)
Mine suit was originally geared toward 1370 German, though I don't wear the splint greaves and arms all that much any more and have changed things a bit. It used to have the fitted jupon and hip placket belt with a short alumunum plastron with a loop in front where I could attach chains to the shield and sword. It looked cool 15 yrs ago, but replacement parts and wear have morphed it.
Juliana