The Armour Archive

okay,lets see here... a friend and I are toying with the idea of a houshold composed of a ragtag group of crusaders during the 3rd crsade and another friend of mine wants to portray an english archer during the early 15th century. this is for the sca but we want to work on making our garb and encampents on par with living history standards.
so can anyone on this board point me towards reliable documentation and resources for these periods?
any help will be appreciated.
thanks
Chris.

This "ragtag band of crusaders" - what social standing are they? Are we talking knights here, or the "licentious soldiery"?

For both, look at the manuscript Liber ad honorem augustiof Peter of Eboli (Burgerbibliothek, Bern, MS 120 / II, f. 98), which has wonderful pics of knights, archers, crossbowmen, civvies etc. An example is here.

You can also look at the Winchester Bible.

I have other pics, including others from Peter of Eboli, but these are pretty typical.

For encampments, the sources are a little less detailed, as far as I'm aware, but it would be good to go ]url= here]http://www.geocities.com/historyoftents/12thcentury/12thcindex.html]here[/url][/URL] to start with (BTW - the term "bell tent" is used here to mean a circular tent with side walls tapering slightly inward as they go up, with a conical roof, as shown in the accompanying photo on the page).

For ancillary equipment, I have anarticle on shovels that you may be interested in, and there is a book in most libraraies called "The Plantagenet Chronicles" which contains many pictures of such things as peasants working the land.

Get hold of books on Mediaeval Art - university libraries are a good place to look. They often have inteersting details in them that get otherwise overlooked.

Think about what functions would be likely to take place in a mediaeval encampment (and don't forget the washerwomen!) and what equipment would have been needed to carry out those functions. Will you be using horses? More equipment needed, grooms, servants, you name it.

Read Primary source materials from the Third Crusade, if you can get them. There was a recent discussion on the required equipment of a Templar, as I recall, (their rule was very comprehensive and detailed). You could learn something from that.

As I metioned before a lot depends on your social class. If you're genuine ragtag, maybe you can't even afford a tent(!)

Hose, turnshoes, linen braies and undershirt, woollen tunic. The site at [url]circa 1265[/url], tho' a little late for you, has a good outline of what your guys would have worn nder the armour - it didn't change all that much in the intervening period.

Peter of Eboli shows his archers wearing simply civilian clothes, while his crossbowmen have helmets or padded caps as well.

If you reply with more on what "class" you had in mind, I may be able to give more info.

Ooh! Just found a fantastic site with tents of all ages. Look at the ones from Peter of Eboli at http://www.viatores-temporis.de/info/zelte.html

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Egfroth

"I hope all your chooks turn to Emus and kick your dunny down."

see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos



[This message has been edited by Egfroth (edited 09-20-2003).]

thaks for the help, I doubt we will get into horses and sevants any time soon , seeing as how it is just two of us right now.

and by "rag tag" I ment from differing countries and nations a german and a norman(he dosent know where he wants this norman to come from yet), I guess I was using the wrong term. the social class we want to portray would be towards the higher class. not exactly rich but not poor.

and I would love to see your article on shovles. I've always liked the idea of having hand made replicas of objects that would be found around an encampment just lying about if nothing else. Adds to the atmosphere.
again, thaks for the help
chris.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by ENGENULF:
<B> thaks for the help, I doubt we will get into horses and sevants any time soon , seeing as how it is just two of us right now.

and by "rag tag" I ment from differing countries and nations a german and a norman(he dosent know where he wants this norman to come from yet), I guess I was using the wrong term. the social class we want to portray would be towards the higher class. not exactly rich but not poor.</B>

Sorry to hear it. It would be good to see some lower classes, but I suppose the SCA is - by its very policy - top heavy. Everybody is a lord or lady.<B>

and I would love to see your article on shovles. I've always liked the idea of having hand made replicas of objects that would be found around an encampment just lying about if nothing else. Adds to the atmosphere.
again, thaks for the help
chris.</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I tried to scan the article for you but my scanner has thrown a widget and suddenly only does bitmaps (dunno why) with resulting huge memory use. There seems to be no way to save the pics as jpegs, no matter what I do.

If I can get it fixed, I'll scan and send.


Now, as to your kit - As Third Crusade soldiers, you should have hauberks with full-length sleeves, fairly close to the arm (unlike the broader shorter sleeves of the 11th century), and by rights they should have integral mufflers (ie mail mittens built into the end of the sleeve). In SCA combat the mufflers may have to be dropped, as i think they violate the requirements for hand protection, no matter how well you pad them - unless you can hide some sort of steel gauntlet under them without spoiling the line of the mail.

You should also have mail chausses (stockings) tied to a waistband. See the pic on the circa 1265 site. But there's no evidence for padded cuisses (thigh protection)at your period - they seem to have come in later. The chausses have integral mail "feet" in them - not shoes or boots. Again, you'd have to hide your leg protection under the mail. 3rd Crusade and earlier is in fact rather hard to do convincingly and accuratel in the SCA, though some have carried it off quite well.

Helmets - For SCA combat, you'll need face protection. Unless you want to use a bar-grille (and PLEASE don't - they look SO crappy!), you'll have to bring yourselves up a notch social class wise, and have a helmet with a face plate, like the one at http://www.geocities.com/egfrothos/Frankhelm2.html ; there helmets were not only flat-topped - they could be hemispherical or conical, and the faceplate took various forms. There's a fair bit of info around on these, if you look around for it.

Shield - mainly triangular with rounded corners, though flat-topped and even round-topped kites were also still in use. Have a look at the shields on the sites I referred you to before.

And the clothes are as shown on those sites.



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Egfroth

"I hope all your chooks turn to Emus and kick your dunny down."

see my webpage at www.geocities.com/egfrothos

I quite agree on the uglyness of bargrills, a helm I had made for sca combat is a hemishperical top with a nasal and a fixture to attach a mail skirting to cover the bargrill up, but I do love the full face plate look. I have been searching for recources on their existance during this period, the only book I have with any information on the crusades shows a knight from 1180 with a helm no different then mine(but without the bargrill).

I'm getting pretty familiar with the clothing and armour, I have alredy made a pair of linen braies and two undershirts, a pair of wool hosen/legging things a couple years ago while I was getting intrested in the Norman conquest of England. would the hosen and overtunic also have been made of linen to combat the heat of the middle east.....or in my case California?
I have a sca book that mentions a style that the crusaders brought back from their adventures. It looks like a long, possibly mid calf length T-tunic and a garment worn over it like a surcote called a "Cyclas". would know of any sources that could support this? I briefly looked over the pictures on the links you sent and havent noticed if there are any people wearing this. I'll look more thuroghly when I have the time.

Also I have a book by Gerry Embleton called "Medieval Militay Costume" I hear he is a respected historian and reenactor, would his books be a reliable resouce?
also what books could you reccomend not only for clothing and armour documentation but the general history of the crusades as a whole?
thanks again.