Scandinavian carved benches c. 1200

Cunian · Post by **Cunian** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 6:10 pm

Has anyone made a bench with carved ones ala the ones in From Viking To Crusader? I am interested in trying my hand at it. Was figuring a back with a couple simple slats looked most likely. It seems like some kind of back was indicated, and would be necessary for stability if nothing else. Anyway, I am looking for any particulars, so it can be the best possible attempt at the moment.

Captain Jamie · Post by **Captain Jamie** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 6:54 pm

I have done it. Mine was done in 5/4 poplar and was only cut to the profile of a romanesque lion not carved. The originals were ~140 cm (55 inches)and had no indication of how long a bench they were used with. Mine was intended to be a single seat and was shrunk to 30 inches high. The pictures I have do not indicate how the back was attached so I elected to not include it. The seat uses 4 wedges in mortises to draw it tight to the uprights. With a good fit it provides plenty of stability. Anybody seen this up close and want to give a few details?

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Captain Jamie-a marvellous valorous gentleman, that is certain
Failure is the price of knowledge
Changing the face of warfare one weapon at a time

adric · Post by **adric** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 1:53 pm

OOOHH - I has sooo been wanting to give it a go! I have no way to post a picture (I don't know how or have any space) BUT i have a lot of pictures of 2 viking benchs. There are 2 out a book and 3-4 that i took when we were in paris this summer at the musey d'orsey.

In the pictures i have the backs are solid and have beasties carved in em. The bottom rail and sides are also carved and are actually cut all the way through. It looks like a lot of work but nothing that should be too dificult - just time consuming.

If some one wants to host some pics i can scan and send!

Captain Jamie · Post by **Captain Jamie** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:19 pm

Please scan and send to MY addy anyway!

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Captain Jamie-a marvellous valorous gentleman, that is certain
Failure is the price of knowledge
Changing the face of warfare one weapon at a time

Ny Bjorn · Post by **Ny Bjorn** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 2:48 pm

Gentlemen

If you could specify which benches you're after I might be of some assistance.

Would the bench from "fVtC" be #42 from Torpo church in Norway? Please keep in mind that it and its likes are not especially "Vikingish" - they are in a fully fledged Medieval Romanesque style (the same goes for the bench from KungsÃ¥ra etc.) - be it in a Norse interpretation of it.

/N B

Captain Jamie · Post by **Captain Jamie** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 3:02 pm

Ny Bjorn- If you have pics I am interested in them. Cunian may have a narrower focus than I do though. Things I would like to know about those benches are:
How high did the back go?

How was it joined to the upright?

Did the whole thing disassemble?

What are the proportions of the the back joins to the total width of the back?

Did the back recline?

How wide was the seat and how long?

etc,.etc.,etc.

Are there photos with scales (meter/centimeter)in them?

Thank you,
Captain Jamie

adric · Post by **adric** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 8:03 pm

No- i'm not sure where the bench was from in paris as i don't have that stuff in front of me and it will need to be dug up. The book beasty bench is from Kungsara Church in Vastmanland c.1100. The chair is heddal church, telemark of the same vintage. The book also has pictures of several turned pieces from Kloster Isehagen germany; vallstena church gotland; and a church in old uppsala but didn't give the name of the church.

Jamie - what addy and format would you like? I can get the book pics off today or tomorrow and the paris pics as soon as i figure out how my wife stored them on the 'puter.

Michael B · Post by **Michael B** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:28 pm

I'd like to put my hands up for pictures also, if you don't mind. I'll try any format, and my address is in my profile.

Thanks
Michael B

Captain Jamie · Post by **Captain Jamie** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 10:58 pm

Jpeg is ok gif also. Josephnjody at spitfire.net.

Thank you,
Jamie

Cunian · Post by **Cunian** » Mon Dec 15, 2003 11:04 pm

Ny Bjorn - The bench ends I was looking at were from Hemsedal Church, in Hallingdal, Norway, and are certainly rather post-viking.(c. 1200) These seem like maybe just a church thing?

Adric - a few pictures would be a lovely thing. I am cunian at citlink dot net.

Thanks all around. Now, of course, I am curious about all of these other bench ends.

Ny Bjorn · Post by **Ny Bjorn** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:53 am

Adric: Old Uppsala (Gamla Uppsala) is the name of the parish, hence the church is called Old Uppsala church.

I'll see what I can scan for you. I have quite good photos of the KungsÃ¥ra bench (it's in the collections of the Museum of National Antiquities here in town) as well as some other mainly Norwegian and Icelandic chairs and benches.

/N B

[This message has been edited by Ny BjÃ¶rn (edited 12-16-2003).]

Ny Bjorn · Post by **Ny Bjorn** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 1:15 am

-meanwhile You might follow this link for some official KungsÃ¥ra-photos (maybe - the link is fl-ing long...)

/N B

Michael B · Post by **Michael B** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:16 am

Ooooooh. That is very nice.

Cunian · Post by **Cunian** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 8:13 am

That is impressive. I am certainly in no league to play at anything resembling that. It would be nice...but I am really no woodworker, just a little too eager to rush into projects.

The ones I was looking at were just long boards, (~54" and maybe 10"-12" wide), with animal heads at the top, a lot like the Oseburg bed. At seat level they had a broad slot to fit the bench seat into. There looked like there were maybe some nail sized holes and some differently colored areas along the back, but it didn't scream out what sort of back it might accomodate. Probably another wide board?

adric · Post by **adric** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:17 am

Yep thats the one! I freaking love it! I want one. I will love it and feed it and pet it and walk it and it will be mine!

Ok so thats done now i need to have my wife find the paris pics and get those out!

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 12:00 pm

Interesting - why would such elaborate decoration be put on the back of the bench? I would expect most benches to be placed against a wall and thus the backs would not often be seen?

Steve

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Forth Armoury
Highly authentic, affordable riveted maille.

Cunian · Post by **Cunian** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:00 pm

If it's a church pew type bench, then the guys behind you get to look at it during the sermon. As far as I can see, most of these are associated with churches. Though, of course, that could just be where they are still around.

Ny Bjorn · Post by **Ny Bjorn** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:04 pm

While you wait - Here's another interesting piece - the Suntak chair from Suntak church in the province of VÃ¤stergÃ¶tland, Sweden.

It's not as elaborately carved, but it is quite intriguing since it's one of the oldest pieces of furniture in Sweden (believed to date from the early 12th century). It has been converted and added to several times but one theory is that it was originally a church bench (for bishops and their likes) that was cut in two. The original may have had two wolf heads. The chair is currently in a local museum in Skara, VÃ¤stergÃ¶tland.

/N B

[img]http://w1.311.telia.com/~u31109390/runes_and_ruins/big_images/suntak_chair.jpg[/img]

[img]http://212.214.31.131/blanketter/cgipict-ext?dbfile=BildFG&FGID=1M16.B145111:196[/img]

[This message has been edited by Ny BjÃ¶rn (edited 12-16-2003).]

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:30 pm

If any of you want a pic of the carved chest from Calontir's 2002 Queens Prize Tourney, I can email it to you. It's about a full meg of picture. It is gorgeous. The chest itself is based on the Mastermyr chest, if I remember correctly.

Michael B · Post by **Michael B** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:45 pm

I shouldn't have sent the link to my wife ... now she wants one ... (the bench, that is).

Her father is thinking of buying a chainsaw mill ...

Is it possible to get any more information about the construction of the back of the bench? It looks like it's all one piece with deep carving, but I can imagine it might be easier to carve it as open fretwork and then put a piece of plain timber behind it (or not ... so you can see the carving from the front ... which would not be as correct or as comfortable, but very pretty ...)

I had the impression that pews in churches - as we know them - are a post-medieval development, and that the congregation generally stood?

Cheers, and thanks for bringing this one to my attention.

Michael B
Reafan

Ernst · Post by **Ernst** » Tue Dec 16, 2003 7:51 pm

I am reminded that the king's thrones and bishop's cathedrae from the Isle of Lewis chess pieces have similar ornament carved in the back.

Cunian · Post by **Cunian** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 12:19 pm

That's a really interesting chair, and does look like a converted bench. Did they date it by the age of the wood,(which would presumably give the age of the original bench, if that's what happened), or some other way? Just kind of wondering when they would have done the conversion, if that's what happened. I can just imagine some Bishop going down to Rome and learning all the newest ecclesiastical fashions. That's a lot more like the type of thing I was thinking of.

Ny Bjorn · Post by **Ny Bjorn** » Wed Dec 17, 2003 3:12 pm

I'll see what more I can find out about it. The short story is that they tried to dendro-date it, but the annual rings from the outer layers were not present, i.e. the wood couldn't be dated. The church was built in the late 1130's and that, along with some stylistic elements was used for the rough date. The back piece has a runic inscription - "Ave Maria Grati".

-Height: 122 cm
-Width: 80,5
-Depth: 51 cm

/N B

[This message has been edited by Ny BjÃ¶rn (edited 12-17-2003).]