The Armour Archive

My next major project is going to be a full suit of armour so that I can work on the shape and fit of armour as a complete set. I'm going to start from the body out, so I'm looking for advise and resources on arming clothes. The suit I'm going to try to reproduce (slowly over the next few years) is the same 1450 suit Jeff J's suit is based on. I'd rather spend hours working on the shape than fluting. I've seen these pictures that Flonzy posted:

http://home.armourarchive.org/members/f ... mage54.jpg

http://home.armourarchive.org/members/f ... mage55.jpg

Jeff: I remember Flonzy telling me you wanted to make some changes. Any advise?

I'm wondering how much padding the arming clothes need overall or if just a few layers of padding over the joints is enough. Also, should I plan to make a seperate garment to hang the legs from? What fastening method should I use for the front? Buttons might be uncomfortable, but hooks might come loose.

Should I design anything differently to attach the voiders (maille patches)? It will probably be awhile before I make those.

In general, any advise/resources on 15th century arming clothes would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Jacob

Jacob,
If you can come up to MTT April 17th &18th. It is at Marrietta Mansion.
Jeff's armour will be there. Probably be a lot easier to talk about it then.

Hi Winterfell,

I'm trying to get a job and graduate by May, so I'm not sure if I'll be able to make it. I've wanted to go for a few years now, though, so I'll see if I can work it out.

Jacob

Do try. We will also be at the Battle of Hastings event in MD as well.

Jacob

For an arming coat of the mid 15th century we are using our doublet patterns. Things we changed from the old ways of doing things are that we tightened up the armhole to fit closely instead of being a huge opening. We also made the arm tighter fitting on the forearm and added length over the bicep/shoulder area so that when you flex your arm up the sleeve does not pull tight and off the wrist. We also make the wrist real tight fitting and button it.

The one I started for myself a while back was 4 layers and has raw cotton in it for some padding. Jeff's in the picture has no stuffing in the body but the neck and shoulders were thickened with wool.

Once I sell the breastplate in this thread: http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=28956 I'm going to start buying materials for this project.

The Medieval Tailor's Assistant and TOMAR (too bad his 15th c book isn't ready) are on the list of things to buy. Once I get version 1 of the arming clothes, there are a few things I need around the shop and materials. I'm planning on using 1050 steel, mostly work hardened, smaller pieces may be hardened and tempered. Most of it will be 18ga. I'll decide on helm thickness when I get that far.

I may have another reason to be in Northern VA in April, so I may be able to combine that with MTT.

Jacob

Jacob

If you want help making an arming coat you could always email me and we could set some time up if you are willing to drive up one weekend.

Sorry for the delayed response - I've been out of town all week.

I've mothballed that arming doublet and am currently wearing a second, blue interim one with some improvements. It's still not where I want to be, but it's better.

The red doublet's flaws are:

- Too much padding. Under plate, you only need padding where the armor is going to ride - the shoulders, perhaps a bit in the waist. Plate is hot enough as it is, and having more layers than what is required for structure just adds to heat build-up. Consider: if something is going to hit you hard enough to cave in or crack your breastplate, what additional protection is a layer of padding going to provide? I Recommend 2 layers of linen, the shell of heavy 18-22 ounce linen or hemp canvas and a liner of 5 ounce linen bleached and washed many times to be soft and prevent chafing. the only padding I'd use is across the shoulders, some 4 or 5 layers of canvas or just a couple of layers of canvas, stuffed with some padding such as tow or even a few layers of fulled wool.

- armpits too low. Arms ought be as James indicated - high under the arm pit, perhaps gusseted to allow a full range of movement. Arms should be a little loose in the bicep and always tight through the forearm.

- front closures. Front should be laced with a spiral pattern - I now use 1-1/2" between point holes and that works dandy. Buttons and hooks are too weak; as you can see from the pics, the front hooks on the bottom of the red arming doublet have blown out. Always make the doublet tight around the waist so it acts as a support structure for your legs. and oint the legs right to the doublet with points in a spiral through several eyelets. (always make eyelets with a heavy awl, never cut material to make eyelets)

Again, as James indicated, use a doublet pattern with 4 body panels, 4 peplums, collar, and arms.

No support needed for the voiders, just sew them to the doublet. I've seen them pointed on to be removable, but there's no evidence for that and frankly, it looks much neater sewn with heavy linen thread with a stitch through every edge ring.

Thanks Jeff J! Some very useful info there from the school of hard knocks. Any pics available of the new doublet? It would be interesting to compare the two. On the subject of gussets there is a portrait by Moroni shown in Ffoulkes that appears to have gussets that are pointed on or perhaps sewn to a backing and then the whole thing pointed on. The portrait is of course from a latter period (17th cent?) than the one in question and so not directly applicable.