I'm Really stuck now...

[Tom Knighton]

Murdock,

Do you have a website for Lewis Moore? I'm thinking about putting together a kit from about this time and would like to get prices on helms.

Thanks!

Bran

[Sgt. Heinrich]

http://members.aol.com/knightsarmoury/k ... ry_001.htm

[Ernst]

A few little questions though. In that time period were gambesons worn over a tunic or under. Also, were vambraces common then. What kind of surcoats were they wearing, and what level of heraldry were they at? And finally, should I just make my gambeson big enough to fit over some light plastic armor, so it is the only visible layer of armor.

I apologize for my digression, and I'll try to respond to this set of questions. I'm sure T-Bob can correct me if I am in error, once he gets back to a computer.

The earlies gambeson images I am familiar with date to c. 1220, or about 30 years after your target. They are short sleeved and worn over a tunic or over mail, a fashion still in use in the 1250's Maciejowski Bible. The Mac Bible examples have some folds above the waist belt, so they should be loose enough to get some concealed armor beneath. There is an English Assize dating from the 1180's which gives landowners of a certain worth the option of appearing for muster in a mail hauberk or a gambeson. Unfortunately, finding sources which show the form of these 12th century gambesons is more difficult. The 1220 examples have no collar, vertical quilting lines, are knee length, pull over the head, and have half sleeves.

The earliest vambraces still seem to be about a century into the future. You can make a simple steel form with some 8mm closed cell foam inside, and wear this under a wool tunic sleeve. Scrap steel can sometimes be obtained for next to nothing, and it doesn't matter how it looks if it's hidden. Likewise you can use other materials if they're free and rigid.

The issue of surcoats might be better clarified by T-Bob. The examples I have seen from c.1200-1220 are at least knee length, often longer, and very loose and draping. Heraldic "coats of arms" don't seem to start appearng until about 1240, and are less common than unadorned surcoats even then. If surcoats were in use as early as 1190, I doubt they would have any heraldic nature at all. Robert may prove me incorrect on this point yet.

If there are other questions we haven't specifically addressed, please feel free to remind the forum.

[Templar Bob/De Tyre]

A few little questions though. In that time period were gambesons worn over a tunic or under. Also, were vambraces common then. What kind of surcoats were they wearing, and what level of heraldry were they at? And finally, should I just make my gambeson big enough to fit over some light plastic armor, so it is the only visible layer of armor.

I apologize for my digression, and I'll try to respond to this set of questions. I'm sure T-Bob can correct me if I am in error, once he gets back to a computer.

The earlies gambeson images I am familiar with date to c. 1220, or about 30 years after your target. They are short sleeved and worn over a tunic or over mail, a fashion still in use in the 1250's Maciejowski Bible. The Mac Bible examples have some folds above the waist belt, so they should be loose enough to get some concealed armor beneath. There is an English Assize dating from the 1180's which gives landowners of a certain worth the option of appearing for muster in a mail hauberk or a gambeson. Unfortunately, finding sources which show the form of these 12th century gambesons is more difficult. The 1220 examples have no collar, vertical quilting lines, are knee length, pull over the head, and have half sleeves.

The earliest vambraces still seem to be about a century into the future. You can make a simple steel form with some 8mm closed cell foam inside, and wear this under a wool tunic sleeve. Scrap steel can sometimes be obtained for next to nothing, and it doesn't matter how it looks if it's hidden. Likewise you can use other materials if they're free and rigid.

The issue of surcoats might be better clarified by T-Bob. The examples I have seen from c.1200-1220 are at least knee length, often longer, and very loose and draping. Heraldic "coats of arms" don't seem to start appearng until about 1240, and are less common than unadorned surcoats even then. If surcoats were in use as early as 1190, I doubt they would have any heraldic nature at all. Robert may prove me incorrect on this point yet.

If there are other questions we haven't specifically addressed, please feel free to remind the forum.

On padded aketons: They probably should be in the same form and style as a medieval tunic of the period, stuffed with cotton (hence the name aketon, taken from the Arabic aq-Qutun) and covered with either linen or hempen canvas. Mostly, they're shown in the form they take in the Maciejowski Bible.

A good photographic source for replicas of this garment would be the Historia Vivens - 1300 Page. Being able to read German helps, though...

On surcoats: Again, iconography shows that the most you'll get during this period is to have the surcoat in the same color as your heraldry--heraldic devices were only prominently shown on shields, painted on helms or (sometimes) on fan-crests. The most common form for the surcoat would be of self-colored fabric (say, unbleached linen).

Hope this helps,

[Sgt. Heinrich]

Ok, so a quarted surcoate with my heraldic colors would work. Nice to know. That website was some help, I can read some German.

When you say the gambeson should be in the style of a tunic, do you mean full-sleeved and what length? to the waist? To the knees?