15th C archer in mail codpiece?

Michael B · Post by **Michael B** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:30 pm

See: http://www.caama.ca/images/image1.html

(Sixth image down):

Flanders, c. A.D. 1500.

From "Chronicle of the the Kings and Dukes of Burgundy" (British Library Yates Thompson MS 32)

Two longbows, one with recurved limbs, one archer certainly in a sallet, well armoured in mail and plate vambraces, but suspiciously not below the codpiece.

Any idea what's going on here? Is this unusual? Perhaps it is a depiction based on a reference in the original manuscript.

Cheers
Michael B

^ · Post by ^ » Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:38 pm

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:44 pm

Hi All,

They are commonly mentioned in accounts, and one of Charles the Bold's ordinances specifies it as a required piece of equipment for some of the footsoldiers. Not only are the commonly encountered in art, and in documents, there are a fair number of them surviving (the Met has at least a dozen, in differing qualities and patterns) - all in all, the evidence adds up to them as being a commonplace piece of equipment in the mid 15th century.

I used to think they could only have been for dismounted use, but some of the surviving speciments at the Met could clearly be worn by a mounted man - they are often seen in depictions of German harness.

Benalishlancer · Post by **Benalishlancer** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:47 pm

I think the technical term is braies d'acier. Not 100% sure bout the spelling, but it's something like that.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 4:51 pm

benalishlancer wrote:I think the technical term is braies d'acier. Not 100% sure bout the spelling, but it's something like that.

And Kyle wins the Gold Star for the day. If'n I get a pair eventually, and you are at an event where Peder is present with glaive to hand, I'll make sure you get the loan of them... :wink:

LonnieDColson · Post by **LonnieDColson** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:17 pm

I have generally seen them referred to as mail chausses in the English circles. They basically replaced the mail fauld/skirt in the later periods. They offered more protection than the skirt and didn't flap around on the upper thighs (cuisse).

BTW Doesn't braies d'acier basically mean "steel (under)shorts"?

Egfroth · Post by **Egfroth** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:25 pm

Du"rer's "Paumgartner Altar" has a military saint wearing them, and I have a drawing of a pair showing their shape very clearly (and the closure method of the cod-piece), at http://www.geocities.com/egfroth/mailshorts.JPG (you need to type a question mark after the address in the address bar).

Michael B · Post by **Michael B** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 5:35 pm

Thanks to all for the prompt and informative answers. I was aware that at least one pair of mail underdrawers was extant, but was not aware how common they were.

The thing that still disturbs me is that it looks like the chap is not wearing any hose between the jocks and the boots ... But perhaps that's just an unfortunate choice of colour.

Cheers
Michael B

(Not immediately tempted to include this look in my gear if I ever get around to doing 15th C)

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:26 pm

LonnieDColson wrote:I have generally seen them referred to as mail chausses in the English circles. They basically replaced the mail fauld/skirt in the later periods. They offered more protection than the skirt and didn't flap around on the upper thighs (cuisse).

BTW Doesn't braies d'acier basically mean "steel (under)shorts"?

Lonnie, They aren't chausses, which are a form of stocking - they are shorts. Mail chausses were worn in the 12th & 13th centuries (and in some places in the 14th, and even the 15th)

Mail brayets and shorts existed side by side for quite a span (the shorts, to the best of my knowledge, first are mentioned in the 15th century). They occur across Northern Europe, and are not strictly German.

Yes, the term refers to a pair of shorts, as that is roughly what they look like.