14th century helms?

flyingscotsman · Post by **flyingscotsman** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 10:40 pm

I'm currently trying to get my kit to look more accurate for the mid to late 14th century and was wondering if the conical helm from Forth Armoury or a pig face bacinet would be more appropriate. I also plan to try to get one of Sir Gaston's corrianza (sp?) kits to go with this harness. I'm thinking of swapping personas so my personas location dosen't really matter to me, if that helps. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Timothy

Cet · Post by **Cet** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 12:49 am

The pig face bascinet would be more appropriate for the latter part of the century. the sugarloaf style helmets become leass common after around 1350.

Ned Chaney · Post by **Ned Chaney** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 6:26 pm

You can't beat this with a stick (well I guess you COULD. In fact I guess that's the whole idea. :lol:

) when it comes to mid 14th C. http://webpages.charter.net/nolead/mysugar.jpg

flyingscotsman · Post by **flyingscotsman** » Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:45 pm

Edward, that's one cool sugarloaf!!!! Did you get it from Lewis Moore?

Cet thanks for the info. I had been getting some conflicting info on the great helm and sugarloafs useage in the 14th cent.

Thanks again,
Timothy

Ned Chaney · Post by **Ned Chaney** » Tue Nov 30, 2004 5:49 pm

I got it from Pathfinder. Not sure what his real name is.

Gaston de Clermont · Post by **Gaston de Clermont** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 10:52 am

A great helm or a pig face would be appropriate with a corrazina. Edward's sugar loaf is all kinds of cool, but would be an unlikely match with the corrazina, since that body harness pretty much shows up after the black death, and I can't think of a sugar loaf confidently dated after it. I wouldn't say it's impossible- you still might see an M1 Garand on a modern battlefield, and they were first made in the 1930s. Edward's helm would look great with a less tailored coat of plates, or even better with a nice suit of maile.

Ned Chaney · Post by **Ned Chaney** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 11:53 am

I definately wouldn't pair my sugarloaf with a Corazinna. When I said the sugar is good for mid 14th I meant 1350's/60's. I was envisioning COP,mail, Plate for knees, elbows, maybe vambraces. More consistent with what you'd see in an effigy from that 10-15 year time span. If you want to use a Corazinna I'd definately go with a Bascinet of some sort, and solid plate for legs and arms. Although........the Black Prince was still wearing a Great Helm in the 70's.

Primvs Pavlvs · Post by **Primvs Pavlvs** » Wed Dec 01, 2004 12:05 pm

Isnt the Pmbridge also dated to the 1370s?

Gaston de Clermont · Post by **Gaston de Clermont** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:27 pm

Yes, the Pembridge helm is dated to around 1370. There's also a great picture in Barber and Barker's "Tournaments" of an Italian tourney about then with guys wearing beautiful corrazinas and helms very much like the Pembridge.
I'm still trying to figure out why the sugar loaf phased out, and bascinets and great helms were used simultaneously. Any ideas?

toweyb · Post by **toweyb** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:52 am

Clermont wrote: I'm still trying to figure out why the sugar loaf phased out, and bascinets and great helms were used simultaneously. Any ideas?

The great helm was, as far as I can tell, specifically for a cavalry charge (or joust). You put it on over your skullcap and couched your lance. There are lots of pics in the Manesse codex that show great helms, and most of them are at a gallop. The rest of the time, knights are drawn wearing half-helms wtih mail. Why? Because a jousting helm was too heavy and restrictive for ground fighting. Think of it as an overgrown visor.