15th cent. Italian t-face barbute, worn without full plate?

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Tue Jan 03, 2006 9:52 am

Was a 15th cent. Italian t-face barbute ever worn with styles of body armour other than a full plate white armour? Anything cloth-covered or fabric based would be ideal for my purposes.

Were any hardened leather tournament armours known to be contemporary with such a helm?

Jacob · Post by **Jacob** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:04 pm

The short answer is yes. I'm not sure if they can be documented together in any general use. The Avant suit in Glasgow, which you are probably thinking of, is displayed with the wrong helm.

lorenzo2 · Post by **lorenzo2** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:06 pm

If we can trust art, barbutes were normally worn with lighter armor such as the padded armors shown in the pic below. For plate armor, there are a great many works showing armets in use and just a couple showing barbutes.

http://home.armourarchive.org/members/l ... 0scene.bmp

Alec · Post by **Alec** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:31 pm

Lorenzo,

What a great image. I have never seen that one before. I love the different angles on the oval shields. I need to make me one!!

Here's a photo of my attempt to match a t-slot barbute with a cloth body armour.

[img]http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/4285/mistscynfall0521nl.th.jpg[/img]

T. Finkas · Post by **T. Finkas** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:50 pm

Wow, what a GREAT presentation. I'll bet you get lots of compliments on that rig. Huzzah!

Tim

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Wed Jan 04, 2006 11:32 pm

Thanks guys! Great picture and a very nice SCA kit.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 5:22 am

By the mid 15th century, Barbutes were normally infantry helmets, worn with everything but full white harness.

Maelgwyn · Post by **Maelgwyn** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:08 pm

That is a useful insight, Chef. What sorts of arm and leg armour, if any, are seen with the barbute and jack in 15th cent. Italy? I noticed none were worn in the picture posted, except of course by the riders in white armour. This despite the highlighted laces for attaching arm harness.

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:44 pm

Maelgwyn wrote:That is a useful insight, Chef. What sorts of arm and leg armour, if any, are seen with the barbute and jack in 15th cent. Italy? I noticed none were worn in the picture posted, except of course by the riders in white armour. This despite the highlighted laces for attaching arm harness.

Essentially none. As shown in the pics. I've not seen this pic before (nice). but other Italian art of the period (see Uccello) likewise depicts italian infantry with jacks, barbutes/sallets & shields. Legs in infantry seem universally unarmored.

http://www.artchive.com/artchive/U/ucce ... n.jpg.html

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:05 pm

Jeff J wrote:
Maelgwyn wrote:That is a useful insight, Chef. What sorts of arm and leg armour, if any, are seen with the barbute and jack in 15th cent. Italy? I noticed none were worn in the picture posted, except of course by the riders in white armour. This despite the highlighted laces for attaching arm harness.

Essentially none. As shown in the pics. I've not seen this pic before (nice). but other Italian art of the period (see Uccello) likewise depicts italian infantry with jacks, barbutes/sallets & shields. Legs in infantry seem universally unarmored.

http://www.artchive.com/artchive/U/ucce ... n.jpg.html

You find some armoured left legs - 'splints' (as in demi everything, not "splinted" a-la the SCA convention for the term), and you see them with brigandiens as well. The Churburg examples seem to have been paired with fussknechtbrust, but no limb defences (none survive, anyway, associated).