Armet

SirSavage · Post by **SirSavage** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:52 pm

I REALLY wish i could attach some pictures to this post.

My question is about armets in the 14c. I'v seen many in medieval pictures but dont understand them.

1 What is the difference between an armet and a close helm.

2 what is the disk on the spine of the neck for. Do they have to have this disk.

3 there appears to be multiple styles of construction and some seem to have 'gorgets attached'???

Thanks a lot

William Savage

Alcyoneus · Post by **Alcyoneus** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:50 pm

Armets operate like DeLorean's, with 'gull wings'. The cheeks lift up on hinges.

Close helms have the cheeks/chin rotate on a side mount pivot.

[img]http://www.mysticmetals.net/closehelmside2.jpg[/img]

The disc on the back of the armet is to give some protection to the gap in the plates on the back of the neck, and for a strap to mount over if there is a reinforce for the chin/neck available.

Occasionally, you will find a close helm with a disc, but it is more for looks than functional.

The 'attached gorget' is a bevor.

[img]http://www.whiterosearmoury.co.uk/New%20Folder/milanese%20export%20bevor.JPG[/img]

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:35 am

I should add, that the earliest armet we have evidence for are from the early 15th century, not the 14th.

SirSavage · Post by **SirSavage** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:45 pm

The armets im interested in look like frog helms to me.

This is the kink of helmet id like to construct.

Id like to know, if the visor went down to the bottom of the helm, what did the 'cheek' pieces look like undernieth?

Did they wrap around the chin? did they stop short of the chin? did they only form a slight neck defense?

Thanks for the responses.

Jeff J · Post by **Jeff J** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:00 pm

Armet

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

If it looks like a frog helm, then it ain't an armet. Armets fit close to the face, and don't appear before 1430 or so. Alcy posted a pic of the earliest known survivng one.

Got pics?

Mike England · Post by **Mike England** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:31 pm

Certain angles this style of Great Bascinet like this one by Jeff Hedgecock remind me of frogmouth stechhelms.

http://www.historicenterprises.com/cart ... p=352&c=46

Is this what you are thinking of?

SirSavage · Post by **SirSavage** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:51 pm

Cool that looks exactly like the helmets im talking about.

So a great bacinet huh, when were they used.

But ive seen them with the same 'roundel' on the back of the neck, is this still a great bacinet.

Also can you turn your head in one.

thanks for being soo helpful!

Sword · Post by **Sword** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:07 pm

If the armet appeared about 1430 what were the earliest close helms?

Mike England · Post by **Mike England** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:26 pm

The HE page I linked to dates that helm as 1460.
The notable attribute of the great bascinet is the neck protection which would make it difficulty to turn your head but provides great protection for your neck.
I have read that the besegew on the back of the neck is there to protect the strap holding the helm shut.

I am not familiar with any bascinets that have the same style of visor as this great bascinet but I have seen some 16th century close helms with a similar visor referred to as a "ship's prow".

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:27 pm

I think 1410 in Italy is a more accurate date for appearance, and by the 1430's & 40's elsewhere.

Close helms date to the second decade of the 16th century, as a general rule, with some abberations that are really forms of sallets with attatched pivoting bevors appearing in the Low Countries, England, and Germany in the 1490's.

SirSavage · Post by **SirSavage** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:51 pm

Great now all i need is a link to a pattern for a Great bacinet.

If anyone knows how i can see the construction/desing of these helms please post.

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:57 am

Chef,

I thought the Armet that Alcyoneus posted was late 14th. As far as I knew the only one close to that date as far as Armets go. Could be wrong but I thought it was from Churburg.

RPM

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:30 am

Hi Randall,

Yes, it is from the Churburg, and it is usually dated between 1410-1420. There is some thought out there (by no means universal) that it may have been converted from an earlier great bascinet, into an armet around that date, but it wasn't an armet, generally speaking (if it was indeed ever anything else) , until the first few decades of the 15th century.

RandallMoffett · Post by **RandallMoffett** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:54 pm

Chef,

I am convinced. Thanks for the direction, I knew I had heard it before. It does look strangly great bascinet like doesn't it.
RPM