Chains of Estate

To discuss research into and about the middle ages.

Moderator: Glen K

Post Reply
User avatar
Gregoire de Lyon
Archive Member
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:13 am
Location: Barony of Cynnabar

Chains of Estate

Post by Gregoire de Lyon »

Boy do they look cool.

I can't find evidence prior to War of the Roses era. Does anyone know of something earlier? If so, time and place please...

Thanks.
Gregoire de Lyon

----
"I am going to go out to the shop to taste some leathers. I'll report back later." -- Mac
Top
User avatar
Karen Larsdatter
Archive Member
Posts: 3104
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Ashburn, VA
Contact:
Contact Karen Larsdatter

Re: Chains of Estate

Post by Karen Larsdatter »

Sure -- there are depictions of livery collars dating to the 14th century. See Richard II on the left panel of the Wilton Diptych, for example. There's a collar of esses on Sir John Swinford, who died in 1371; it appears to have started as a symbol for the followers of John of Gaunt, and then gets adopted by his Lancastrian descendants. (The Wikipedia entry has a reasonably good history of this stuff.)
Top
User avatar
Gregoire de Lyon
Archive Member
Posts: 1838
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:13 am
Location: Barony of Cynnabar

Post by Gregoire de Lyon »

Karen you are a veritable font of knowledge! :o

I checked your website but didn't find anything. How do you manage to keep all of these references at hand and straight in your head? Or did you simply search these right off and turn them up? (If so, what keywords and engine did you use?)

Thanks!!
Gregoire de Lyon

----
"I am going to go out to the shop to taste some leathers. I'll report back later." -- Mac
Top
User avatar
Karen Larsdatter
Archive Member
Posts: 3104
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Ashburn, VA
Contact:
Contact Karen Larsdatter

Post by Karen Larsdatter »

Gregoire de Lyon wrote:Karen you are a veritable font of knowledge! :o
:oops: Gosh, very kind of you :lol:

Gregoire de Lyon wrote:I checked your website but didn't find anything. How do you manage to keep all of these references at hand and straight in your head? Or did you simply search these right off and turn them up? (If so, what keywords and engine did you use?)
Sometimes things just stick in my brain. Sometimes these are not useful things. Sometimes these are neither factual nor correct things. But they are there, anyway.

Maybe I'll do another linkspage on larsdatter.com about the livery collars and chains of estate. That'd probably be a useful page (since this subject seems to come up every couple of months, anyway). And that way, next time, I can just point people at a URL, and they can look for themselves.
Top
User avatar
Effingham
Archive Member
Posts: 15102
Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Franklin, IN USA
Contact:
Contact Effingham

Post by Effingham »

She's also cute and friendly.

The good ones are *always* taken. ;)



Effingham
Webpage: http://www.sengokudaimyo.com
Custom avatars: http://sengokudaimyo.com/avatarbiz.html
SENGOKU DAIMYO ONLINE SHOP: http://www.cafepress.com/sengokudaimyo
Grand Cross of the Order of the Laurel: http://www.cafepress.com/laurelorder
Top
User avatar
Karen Larsdatter
Archive Member
Posts: 3104
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Ashburn, VA
Contact:
Contact Karen Larsdatter

Post by Karen Larsdatter »

Gawrsh. :oops: Awful kind of you. :)

Anyway ... okay ... back on subject matter :wink: I got started on http://www.larsdatter.com/collars.htm last night (bah, of course, now I see a couple of HTML flaws; why didn't I catch them while I was working on this?) -- I'll be adding more to this page as I find 'em. (And fixing the sloppy HTML, too.)
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Historical Research”