Late 12th/Early 13th Century Irish Knight - need help

[Syrfinn]

Ok, in my post I have on first page, William Marshal Helm, the helm I posted, I am actually getting.

Question I have is, I know by this time most chain hauberks were full sleeved with mittens, but could a possible Irish knight of the said period, get away with being a little poorer, or maybe chain is a little worn, but have a half sleeve shirt.

To be honest, not real sure I want to wear a full sleeve shirt, and curious if I could wear a half sleeve haubergeon instead.

Thanks

[Syrfinn]

Oh forgot, also looking at shield sizes. It looks like I could go with a cut off kite shield, but some of the books I have, show that heater sizes started coming into play also.

Here is the pic of the helm I am going to be using. Been having a hard time, placing this in a certain time period, due to the dishing on the face. Not sure if thats an scaism, or off an existing piece. Havent seen a piece with that much dishing.

ave several Osprys, plus a few normal books like

Knight - Noble Warrior of England 1200-1600 by Christopher Gravett
Crusades - The Illustrated Historyby Thomas F. Madden

Plus my inspiration to go back to this period, from a very long time from it.

William Marshal - Flower of Chivalry by Georges Duby

Thanks for any help

[Syrfinn]

Ok, was going over some books with paintings and drawings dating between 1200 and 1290, and came across one. Wish I had a scanner, but maybe a search on Google or something might show it.

But the name of the drawing is named the Prisoners at Damascus in 1240, from the Chronica Majora, c1250.

One of the knights, the one carrying back what looks like a king, with a lion on his shield, has on just a elbow length haubergeon, while the rest of the knights and warriors all have on fullsleeved hauberks.

Granted only one drawing so far, but I dont think it would be that far fetched to be able to wear a elbow length haubergeon, though I do understand the norm would be a full sleeved hauberk.

Any thoughts?

Delving thru more stuff I have, to see if maybe I can find more examples.

[B. Amos]

Most of my reserch is from illuminations, primaraly the Mac Bible but I can only recall seeing a handfull of half or 3/4 sleeve hauberks from this time period and they were not on mounted knights

[Syrfinn]

Unfort, I dont have a full copy of Matthew Paris Chronica, but have seen at least 2 instances of him drawing with some mounted knights with half or 3/4 sleeve. The other one I found, is Saladin taking the Cross from King Guy. A few of te knights had half sleeves.

Also found a depection of David vs Goliath, c 1200 I think, that has Goliath in half sleeves.

I still dont think it was common, but I think it probably happened enough for those who did manuscripts back then to draw them in pieces.

[Mord]

You might want to take a look at "Medieval Irish Figure Sculpture," a two volume work.

Mord.

[Syrfinn]

Thanks Mord, will try to find a copy.

[Mord]

Thanks Mord, will try to find a copy.

Sorry, got the citation wrong:

Correct, it is: "Irish Medieval Figure Sculpture" by John Hunt. University of Pittsburgh has it in their Frick Fine Arts Library. If all else fails, I can get access to it.

Mord.

[Roibeard MacNeill]

Thanks Mord, will try to find a copy.

Sorry, got the citation wrong:

Correct, it is: "Irish Medieval Figure Sculpture" by John Hunt. University of Pittsburgh has it in their Frick Fine Arts Library. If all else fails, I can get access to it.

Mord.

I have that book...it is a phenomenal source for what you are looking for. I packed it up for our move but if you need some pics from it I can see about digging it out.

[Syrfinn]

Pm sent, thanks Roibeard Zombie.