Hiding Modern Footwear

An area for discussing methods for achieving or approximating a more authentic re-creation, for armour, soft kit, equipment, ...

Moderator: Glen K

User avatar
Blackoak
Archive Member
Posts: 3268
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Hiding Modern Footwear

Post by Blackoak »

Ok, I have just finished covering a new pair of cleats for fighting and wanted to do a tutorial, so here goes. For this project I used bull hide that is probably about 4 oz. I have used deer skin and regular 3-4 oz veg tanned leather as well, but this supple bull hide worked very well.

First I get a rough pattern size to fit the shoe.

Image

Image

The front piece needs to cover the front of the shoe but needs to leave enough room to still be able to tie the shoe laces.

Image

This picture shows how the bigger piece lines up on the back of the shoe.

Image

The uneven upper end of the back piece is what will fold over the shoe.

Image

As each shoe is different, I do not have a set pattern and cut back the excess leather as I fit it to the shoe.

Uric
The monkey must come out!
User avatar
Blackoak
Archive Member
Posts: 3268
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Blackoak »

Next using contact cement I attach the front leather cover.

Image

Image

I use a razor knife to cut the excess back.

Image

Next I trim back the back piece.

Image

This is probably the more tedious part as it is multiple tweaks to make sure it fits right, but you can see it taking shape. Next step is attaching the back piece with contact cement.

Uric
The monkey must come out!
User avatar
Blackoak
Archive Member
Posts: 3268
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Blackoak »

The next step is attaching the toggles. These are fake bone toggles from the Leather Factory.

Image

In order to make sure the toggles are placed right I first cut the toggle slits on the leather tabs.

Image

With the shoe on I figure where it will fit comfortably and use a Sharpie marker to mark my spot.

Image

Then I attach the toggles with waxed linen thread. I have to drill a small hole through the toggle to attach them.

Image

Uric
The monkey must come out!
User avatar
Blackoak
Archive Member
Posts: 3268
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Blackoak »

With the thicker leather the front of the shoe does not lay smooth so I put a few stitches in the front and back to take up the slack. Also on this pair I used heavy duty staples along the bottom to keep the leather attached.

Image

Image

The stitch in the back top takes it in so you have a better fit and it isn't loose & sloppy.

Image

Where the back piece overlaps the front of the shoe I stitch it down so I am not just relying on the glue to hold it down.

Image

Uric
The monkey must come out!
User avatar
Blackoak
Archive Member
Posts: 3268
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Blackoak »

So this is the general shape we are dealing with.

Image

To touch it up I added a running stitch along the edges of waxed linen thread.

Image

Image

This is the 5th pair I have covered and am getting pretty comfortable with it. For your first attempt I would recommend using a heavy fabric to get a rough size of your pattern so you do not waste leather.

Comments & critique welcome.

Uric
The monkey must come out!
User avatar
Vladimir
Archive Member
Posts: 5524
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Northern VA USA

Post by Vladimir »

To make a pattern for these...

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee11 ... loseup.jpg

I pulled a sock over the shoe and wrapped it in duct tape. Then I cut the duct tape into the pieces I needed.

It worked great!
Per pale sable and gules, two eagles rising respectant Or and in base an open
book argent.
audax
Dark Overlord Chick of the Universe
Posts: 8416
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:44 am

Post by audax »

And yet another project goes on the List.
Martel le Hardi
black for the darkness of the path
red for a fiery passion
white for the blinding illumination
--------------------------------------
Ursus, verily thou rocketh.
^
Archive Member
Posts: 2551
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2000 1:01 am

Post by ^ »

What kind of cleats are those? And do you or anyone else have any recommendations for types of cleats. Soccer shoes would seem to have the best profile but tend to have such large cleats.
audax
Dark Overlord Chick of the Universe
Posts: 8416
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:44 am

Post by audax »

Piers Brent wrote:What kind of cleats are those? And do you or anyone else have any recommendations for types of cleats. Soccer shoes would seem to have the best profile but tend to have such large cleats.
I wear football cleats out on the tennis courts because they have a torsion plate. Keeps me from re-injuring my turf toe.

Football cleats have a reasonable profile and depending on which ones you buy the cleats aren't as large as soccer cleats.
Martel le Hardi
black for the darkness of the path
red for a fiery passion
white for the blinding illumination
--------------------------------------
Ursus, verily thou rocketh.
Diglach Mac Cein
Archive Member
Posts: 14071
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 1:01 am

Post by Diglach Mac Cein »

Are the laces uneeded at this point? Or if they are, how do you change them out if they break?

Please use rounded, low (1/4") turf cleats. Had someone step on my foot at Pennsic one year with METAL cleats - punched right through the top of my boot.

We were on the SIDELINES.


.
McCein Leatherworks and Sutlery - Used / refurbished armor, leatherworks, and accessories -

Check out my FB Page -
User avatar
Blackoak
Archive Member
Posts: 3268
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Blackoak »

Diglach mac Cein wrote:Are the laces uneeded at this point? Or if they are, how do you change them out if they break?

Please use rounded, low (1/4") turf cleats. Had someone step on my foot at Pennsic one year with METAL cleats - punched right through the top of my boot.

We were on the SIDELINES.
.
I still use the laces. I have access to the top 2-3 holes to tighten and tie them. My last set went over 2 years and the laces never broke. They would be difficult to change or you could just replace the top 3 holes.

Brent, these are soccer cleats. I had been fighting in the style with the bigger cleats but couldn't use them on hard surfaces. These have multiple small rubber cleats that also work well on solid ground. I got these at Academy Sports for about 35 dollars.

Uric
The monkey must come out!
User avatar
InsaneIrish
SQUEEE!
Posts: 18252
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Jefferson City Mo. USA

Post by InsaneIrish »

How well do the staples hold up?
Insane Irish

Quote: "Nissan Maxima"
(on Pennsic) I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.
User avatar
James B.
Archive Member
Posts: 31596
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2002 2:01 am
Location: Ashburn VA
Contact:

Post by James B. »

Nicely done.
James B.
In the SCA: Master James de Biblesworth
Archer in La Belle Compagnie
Historic Life
taluntheb
Archive Member
Posts: 201
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Duncan, SC, USA

Post by taluntheb »

Good looking Cleat covers!
I've been doing cleat cover's for six or seven years now, and I've revised my patterns five times so far. Each revision has been made soley (No pun intended) to get closer and closer to a proper turnshoe appearance. Your pattern looks great for toggle shoes, especially the Jarvik style.

(I have a few specific foot problems that require the support and stability I can get from cleat soles, and I have to have custom orthotics for all my shoes or else it literally feels like I am walking with large marbles stuck into the arches of my feet... This is a pre-emptive answer to the inevitable 'why not just wear turn shoes? questions.)
Your tutorial is great, and has convinced me to get off of my butt and write one of my own.... Which I'll try to post later.

I did want to suggest to people thinking about trying to make there own cleats that they take a look at soccer cleats... I like the fact that the sole pattern is much closer to the shape of period shoes... However if you are looking for the greater ankle support you can get from football cleats, they may not work for you... just wanted to throw that out there.

Sorry if it seems like I derailed your thread to pimp my own stuff... I'm actually trying to give you props for your own work and for inspiring me to get on with mine...

Talun Mac Dubhagain
If you don't care what the other guy thinks it's not an honor system- it is a system of inner masturbation. -Vitus von Atzinger
User avatar
Blackoak
Archive Member
Posts: 3268
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Blackoak »

InsaneIrish wrote:How well do the staples hold up?
This is the first time I am using the staples. I taught Sir James the Holy my pattern and he used the staples to reinforce the glue. So it is a first for both of us.

I have stitched the bottoms before, but that is a pain, especially stitching the toe of the shoe.

Thanks Talun. :D

Uric
The monkey must come out!
Jestyr
Archive Member
Posts: 1942
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:17 pm
Location: Trimaris / South Florida
Contact:

Post by Jestyr »

Piers Brent wrote:What kind of cleats are those? And do you or anyone else have any recommendations for types of cleats. Soccer shoes would seem to have the best profile but tend to have such large cleats.
I play softball in Tanel RPM Lites.
http://www.tanel360.com/

The cleat pattern on them at the ball of your foot is circular, which can reduce the strain on your ankle or knee when you twist on the ball of your foot. I've thought of covering a pair for fighting. The RPMs have a relatively low profile.

I don't like them for football (I play flag), as they don't have the ability to cut the way speed football cleats do, but in SCA combat you don't really run full speed, only to change directions at full speed, so the Tanels seem like a better choice.

A soccer cleat usually has the lowest profile, but I haven't played soccer since I was in High School, so I can't comment on how the cleat pattern would affect performance.
User avatar
uwhguy
Archive Member
Posts: 282
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:34 pm
Location: Storvik, Atlantia
Contact:

Post by uwhguy »

How do these work in regards to heat retention? They look to me like your feet would be an oven?

Has anyone experienced taking a pair of cleats, removing the soles, and adding them to a pair of turnshoes?

I looked at vibram soles, but I cannot find cleat soles to save my life.

Carlisle
Lord Carlyle
Squire to Sir Gaius Tascius Severus Fabianus
Warlord of the Sergeants of St. Aiden
Peikko
Archive Member
Posts: 1466
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:16 am
Location: Formerly the sunny bit of England...Now returned to Malagentia, EK.

Post by Peikko »

uwhguy wrote:How do these work in regards to heat retention? They look to me like your feet would be an oven?

Has anyone experienced taking a pair of cleats, removing the soles, and adding them to a pair of turnshoes?

I looked at vibram soles, but I cannot find cleat soles to save my life.

Carlisle
I have...it was more trouble than it was worth IMHO.
"trust me, I'm an archaeologist..."
The Iron Door Collective
http://www.swordfightexeter.org/
Norman
Archive Member
Posts: 4313
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 1:01 am
Location: East Brunswick, NJ, USA
Contact:

Post by Norman »

Blackoak wrote:
Diglach mac Cein wrote:Are the laces uneeded at this point? Or if they are, how do you change them out if they break?
...
I still use the laces. I have access to the top 2-3 holes to tighten and tie them. My last set went over 2 years and the laces never broke. They would be difficult to change or you could just replace the top 3 holes.
uwhguy wrote:How do these work in regards to heat retention? They look to me like your feet would be an oven?
Has anyone experienced taking a pair of cleats, removing the soles, and adding them to a pair of turnshoes?
Along the same lines with Uwhguy,
I must ask - why bother with the laces?
When I saw your tutorial, my first thought was that at least the top half of the shoe is completely irrelevant -- Why not cut it off altogether?
Norman
SilkRoadDesign Arts- http://www.srdarts.com
Armour of the Silk Road http://www.archive.org(www.geocities.com/normlaw)
JewishWarriors - http://www.reocities.com/jewishwarriors
Red Kaganate - http://www.redkaganate.org
Email kaganate&yahoo.com
User avatar
Blackoak
Archive Member
Posts: 3268
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Blackoak »

I haven't had any issues with heat retention. All I ever wear fighting are ankle socks, but I have had no issues really.

As far as why I don't cut the shoe, it is to keep the shoe support intact. I don't want the traction of cleats with a leather cover stapled/glued on. To me it would destroy the integrity of the shoes and defeat the purpose of wearing cleats.

Feel free to try cutting the shoe up and attaching the soles and see how it works. This tutorial was to inspire ideas and to expand on. Give it a try and let us know how it turns out. This works for me. :D

Uric
The monkey must come out!
lebreton
Archive Member
Posts: 355
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2004 1:19 am
Location: Spring, TX

Post by lebreton »

This is a set I made with deck shoes as a base. I have another set with canvas high tops as a base. The high tops are what I fight in, they have been around for 2 years and I have yet to do any repairs. I glue the cover to the base of the soe with contact cement from leather factory.
Attachments
shoes.jpg
(41.44 KiB) Downloaded 366 times
User avatar
iaenmor
Archive Member
Posts: 1781
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2002 1:01 am
Location: Magnolia Texas US

Post by iaenmor »

Dang George, wonder why those shoes look familiar.

Blackoak, nice idea. Curious to see how long the staples last.
John Moore
audax
Dark Overlord Chick of the Universe
Posts: 8416
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:44 am

Post by audax »

Diglach mac Cein wrote:
Please use rounded, low (1/4") turf cleats. Had someone step on my foot at Pennsic one year with METAL cleats - punched right through the top of my boot.


.
Will do. The pair I have has plastic soles and the cleats aren't especially big but I'll see if I can find some with a lower profile sole next time I get some.

Metal cleats just seem like idiocy.
Martel le Hardi
black for the darkness of the path
red for a fiery passion
white for the blinding illumination
--------------------------------------
Ursus, verily thou rocketh.
audax
Dark Overlord Chick of the Universe
Posts: 8416
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:44 am

Post by audax »

Norman wrote:
Blackoak wrote:
Diglach mac Cein wrote:Are the laces uneeded at this point? Or if they are, how do you change them out if they break?
...
I still use the laces. I have access to the top 2-3 holes to tighten and tie them. My last set went over 2 years and the laces never broke. They would be difficult to change or you could just replace the top 3 holes.
uwhguy wrote:How do these work in regards to heat retention? They look to me like your feet would be an oven?
Has anyone experienced taking a pair of cleats, removing the soles, and adding them to a pair of turnshoes?
Along the same lines with Uwhguy,
I must ask - why bother with the laces?
When I saw your tutorial, my first thought was that at least the top half of the shoe is completely irrelevant -- Why not cut it off altogether?
Do you mean cut off the top half of the turnshoe cover or of the cleated shoe?

The laces on cleats tighten them to the foot giving it stability which is what folks like Uric and I are after in wearing them. My pair even has a tightenable midfoot strap which is awesome for keeping ones foot from rotating in the shoe.

It was my foot rotating inside a shoe on Astroturf (which is the Devil) that caused my turf toe in the first place. Turf toe is horribly painful and debilitating and takes forever to heal.
Martel le Hardi
black for the darkness of the path
red for a fiery passion
white for the blinding illumination
--------------------------------------
Ursus, verily thou rocketh.
Norman
Archive Member
Posts: 4313
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 1:01 am
Location: East Brunswick, NJ, USA
Contact:

Post by Norman »

audax wrote:
Norman wrote:
Blackoak wrote:
Diglach mac Cein wrote:Are the laces uneeded at this point? Or if they are, how do you change them out if they break?
...
I still use the laces. I have access to the top 2-3 holes to tighten and tie them. My last set went over 2 years and the laces never broke. They would be difficult to change or you could just replace the top 3 holes.
uwhguy wrote:How do these work in regards to heat retention? They look to me like your feet would be an oven?
Has anyone experienced taking a pair of cleats, removing the soles, and adding them to a pair of turnshoes?
Along the same lines with Uwhguy,
I must ask - why bother with the laces?
When I saw your tutorial, my first thought was that at least the top half of the shoe is completely irrelevant -- Why not cut it off altogether?
Do you mean cut off the top half of the turnshoe cover or of the cleated shoe?
No I meant to cut off the top half of the internal sneaker
The laces on cleats tighten them to the foot giving it stability which is what folks like Uric and I are after in wearing them. My pair even has a tightenable midfoot strap which is awesome for keeping ones foot from rotating in the shoe.
Understood.
I had not thought of that concern. I saw a modern shoe as a way of getting the comfortable sole but had the concern about heat retention that Uwhguy first expressed on this thread (in "real life" I go for the open sandals first chance I get -- wearing essentialy two shoes one over the other seemed like it would be dreadful under most spring/summer event conditions)
Norman
SilkRoadDesign Arts- http://www.srdarts.com
Armour of the Silk Road http://www.archive.org(www.geocities.com/normlaw)
JewishWarriors - http://www.reocities.com/jewishwarriors
Red Kaganate - http://www.redkaganate.org
Email kaganate&yahoo.com
kender
New Member
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 6:03 pm
Location: Rome, NY
Contact:

Post by kender »

These are really ingenious!

Everyone I point at this thread says the same thing: "Wow, that's a great idea, I have to try that!"

Thanks for sharing.
User avatar
caladin
Archive Member
Posts: 222
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:23 pm
Location: Austin TX

i mad

Post by caladin »

I made a pair many years ago out of a pair of nike cross trainers,
I glued it on and then used a tiny drill bit to drill hole along the sole
so the stitches were beneath the insole on the inside, then sewed it on
with a glovers needle or an upholstery needle, one of the medium sized curved ones, and needle nosed pliers.

It worked awesome, I used the shoes till the soles delaminated off them.

I will not lie though, stitching the toe was the debil.

Now I use a set of chivalry book shelf boots with vibram soles re sewn on to them for tourneys, and a pair on 10 foot rule shoes for practice.

Cal-
Malachiuri
Archive Member
Posts: 632
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2003 2:01 am
Location: Shawnee Kansas

Post by Malachiuri »

What is it with trying to hide modern shoes?

Just live the dream...

http://www.zazzle.com/chain_mail_shoes- ... 3975724073
Baron Malachi von Uri
KSCA, OP
Kingdom of Calontir

"Its like he channels dead crazy people."
Doorman
Archive Member
Posts: 2739
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:38 pm
Location: Go to the middle of nowhere, hang a left and go past BFE. I'm the crazy guy standing under a tree.
Contact:

Post by Doorman »

Malachiuri wrote:What is it with trying to hide modern shoes?

Just live the dream...

http://www.zazzle.com/chain_mail_shoes- ... 3975724073
:shock: I must have a pair of those shoes...too bad they don't make them in a size 16... :sad:
Avada Kedavera, meet Avtomat Kalashnikova
Halvgrimr wrote:I don't have the time to write like a English major when I am doing drive bys
User avatar
InsaneIrish
SQUEEE!
Posts: 18252
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2000 1:01 am
Location: Jefferson City Mo. USA

Post by InsaneIrish »

Ulric,

How are the staples holding up?
Insane Irish

Quote: "Nissan Maxima"
(on Pennsic) I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.
User avatar
Blackoak
Archive Member
Posts: 3268
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Blackoak »

With fighting pretty slow over the summer, I have only fought in them once. They held up well so far.

I do plan on eventually replacing some of the staples with actual stitching, but probably not until these start coming loose. Hopefully that will be a while. :D

Uric
The monkey must come out!
Angusm0628
Archive Member
Posts: 6482
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 11:05 pm
Location: Mifflinburg Pa
Contact:

Post by Angusm0628 »

Guy in my household just knocked out a pair of these on Thursday/Friday before we went to landgrab (had to come back home yesterday)...Not hard to do and makes the cleat look sooooooo much better...
Angus MacClerie
User avatar
Greenshield
Archive Member
Posts: 884
Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:01 am
Location: New Orleans, La USA - Gleann Abhann(SCA)
Contact:

Post by Greenshield »

uwhguy wrote:How do these work in regards to heat retention? They look to me like your feet would be an oven?

Has anyone experienced taking a pair of cleats, removing the soles, and adding them to a pair of turnshoes?

I looked at vibram soles, but I cannot find cleat soles to save my life.

Carlisle
I have. I took a pair of period shoes with a blown sole to the local cobbler (shoe repair store) and had them put a vibram boot sole on. Not cleets but good hiking tread. They work great and hold up well.

Greenshield.
Mjoll
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 2:29 am
Location: Ramshaven, Kingdom of Ealdormere

Post by Mjoll »

This... this is fabulous.
~Mjoll of Ramshaven
User avatar
Blackoak
Archive Member
Posts: 3268
Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:33 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA

Post by Blackoak »

Staples are holding up pretty well so far. Some were starting to ease themselves out and I tapped them in with a hammer last night.

Sooner or later I am going to take a small drill bit and lace the cover to the rubber sole for a more permanent hold. They are holding up well, but I have not gotten them wet yet.

Uric
The monkey must come out!
Post Reply