"The Sword in Two Hands by Brian Price" review wan

[Greg Mele]

Thank you all for understanding.

Guy - well said. As to "what recourse" - well, we're looking into that. But one of the best things we can do, as authors, is 1) to make new, better works available to readers, that we actually get paid for and 2) to make sure that other authors don't get lured into the spider's web.

Incidentally, I would like to echo what Hal and Christian said about Purpleheart. Christian and Tasha are honorable to a fault; they would never double-deal with someone because such behavior never enters their radar. And they paid for those books up-front. So, please don't mistake them for the source; I would feel horrible about that.

Otto - yes, that is eerily familiar.

Again, I really appreciate folks stepping up, offering to paypal royalties, etc. That is noble beyond need. Really, the best way to help is to get the word out; knowing that if there is any skepticism about the claims, the injured parties can corroborate each others' stories and those tales spread throughout Mr Price's business dealings.

[Thorsteinn Raudskeggr]

I have crossposted this to my local SCA group mailing list as well as the West Kingdom and Cynagua group.

Hope it helps.

-Ivan

[Talbot]

I guess it is my turn. I have been quiet about Brian's wrongdoings for a long time because I considered him to be a friend and could not believe that he was as thoroughly dishonest as people said. However I too have been the victim of Brian's dishonesty. Unfortunately this has happened to me more times that I can count and in many more ways than I will relate here.



It all started when I ran a boot at Pennsic. Brian asked me if he could put some of his stuff out at my table. I said sure. I never charged him anything or took a commission. Then people would come up with complaints about products Brian had made or commissions he had not filled and went off on me. I politely told them when they could find him at the booth. They returned but he would frequently stand them up or blow them off. I just put it down to bas business man or a guy who is overwhelmed.

After a few years our business relationship became more formal. I sold his stuff along with mine and we took shifts at the booth. He would work an afternoon or evening and I would get to leave. He often would not show for his shift and I still had to deal with all the complaining people. Still I thought, Just Brian.


Then there came a time when I had to work my real job through Pennsic. At first my wife ran the booth by herself And Brian Offered to help out with more and more of his stuff at the booth. Still he was unreliable but it had become a running joke between my wife any myself and we just accepted that that was Brian.

After a couple more years with a second child my wife was unable to run the booth and Brian offered to run it for me. All I had to do was get my stuff and my pavilion there and he would sell my stuff and his as well. This worked one year just fine. However the next year the same arrangement was made and Brian took my tent and stock. He set up the pavilion, but never took my stock out of the truck until 2 days before war ended. I sold about $100 at that war. At that point I knew he was a thief!



Prior to this Brian offered to publish my book on 14th century armour. We signed a contract and I thought things were progressing. Picture rights were flowing in (according to Brian) and everything was going well (again according to Brian) the only thing was he would never show me any of the hundreds of pictures he claimed had come in. When I reached out to museums that he claimed to have pictures from they had never hear of my book or of Brian. He was lying to me. It took three years and legal threats to regain the publishing rights of my book which had languished. Based on the threads earlier I think I lucked out. Even if he had published it I would not have seen a dime. This book will finally be published this year with Freelance Academy Press.


I'm sure you know that Revival Clothing and Revival US used to be one company. Once they split I joined Revival clothing Because Brian had been steeling my designs and pieces and sending them overseas to have knockoffs of my work done. Many of his best early pieces were stolen from me.


In the early days when we were just good friends we did some trading. I traded him custom footwear, leather goods, brass casting and other items for custom armour. I delivered 100% of the items on my half of the trade. To date I have received 0% of Brian's half of the trade. I am still owed Greaves, Sabatons and Hourglass Gauntlets. To add insult to injury Brian sent me photographs of my gauntlets that he was going to include in his then new book TOMAR. These pictures appear on pages 441-455. It turns out that those were bring made for Sir Robert and not for me at all.



Plainly said Brian is a criminal. That is all

[Chris Cottrell]

Wow. I haven't had a look at this thread for awhile.

FYI: I've been in the literary business for almost two decades, several years of which have been spent as an editor.

Clearly, everyone should boycott Chivalry Bookshelf. However, I'd like to recommend anyone who has not been compensated adequately for their work to have a look at their contracts (if there is any). Assuming there is a violation, which it sounds like there is, it will be a very short trip to getting copyright returned and damages paid.

If there are no contracts, litigation may be more complicated for gaining royalties, but it also means that CB doesn't have copyright and can possibly be forced to return unsold copies to their authors.

Wow. I really hate to see this kind of shady stuff happen to people who worked hard on their manuscripts.

[Talbot]

However, I'd like to recommend anyone who has not been compensated adequately for their work to have a look at their contracts (if there is any). Assuming there is a violation, which it sounds like there is, it will be a very short trip to getting copyright returned and damages paid.

I'm sure everyone has a contract. Brian sent one to me and I'm sure he had them for others.

[Guy Dawkins]

I guess it is my turn.

Plainly said Brian is a criminal. That is all

And you didn't even mention the turn shoes he's selling using the very photograph the supplier had sent to you WITH THE WRONG LACING!

Funny in a very sad way.

[BrianRPrice]

This is a hard thread to read, but, given the difficulties over the last several years, and the hyper aggressive complaints made by two people, I should make a statement here.

First, I will certainly admit up front, with continued sadness, that we *are* behind on royalties for the Chivalry Bookshelf, and are backed up to 2006 in some cases, 2007 in others. However, all royalties will be paid, just as previous debts were paid.

Second, I will also say outright that I am not surprised that Mr. Tobler and Mr. Mele--who I also thought of as friends until 2006--are leading this charge, particularly since they have a competing firm and are closely associated with Ms. Allen, who has a firm that competes with Revival.us. There are other complaints here and there in the thread which I will attempt to deal with; however, there are also a number of either falsehoods or severe differences of perception which may not be able to be resolved here. I am currently traveling and cannot enter into a debate, which also seems ill-advised if these gentlemen are considering legal action of their own. For the last five years at Pennsic neither of these gentlemen has made any effort to walk four booths down to discuss anything, but have been very free to complain loudly and often to anyone who would listen; there has been hardly any restraint in their vocality, which hardly constitutes reticence to leap into the fray.

REGARDING CHIVALRY BOOKSHELF

1) On the whole, I have *lost* money on the bookshelf, not "lined my pockets" with it. The project stated with a $50k investment by my wife, Ann, and over the years we fed it another $110k, rather than taking money out. I also gave up a very lucrative technology post in order to give it a shot. This state of affairs is what really drove the development of the second business, Revival.us. From the start, it was clear that the Revival business was rapidly overtaking CB, and in order to feed my family, the Revival business was the one that we continued to develop.

2) We paid royalties until late 2006, when the cash-flow for CB came sharply down. The biggest factor in the dramatic reduction in available funds came with my huge investment in Christian Tobler's In Service of the Duke. While beautiful and a masterpiece my Christian, this single project ran over-budget and came in at just short of $50k. To date, we have sold just $21k in sales for it. I had assumed, wrongly, that the book's costs would be recouped in a year, but that assessment was wrong. Unfortunately, a $30k hit in a struggling business is more than significant, it is catastrophic.

3) At the same time, also in 2006, the French magazine which we distributed, Medieval History Magazine, abruptly and without warning went out of business, leaving us holding about $20k in subscription commitments for a magazine which was now unavailable. At this was a French company who went bankrupt (they had a very fine line of magazines), we had no recourse. We did, however, either refund or give 100% purchase gift certificates. Technically this debt belonged to Harnois, as all of the funds had been sent to them, but we did not want to leave all of these customers holding the bag, so we made up the difference. It was expensive, but it needed to be done and was the right thing to do. Unfortunately, it came right as In Service of the Duke was going through production.

4) We lost our European distributor in 2006, as the founder of the Greenhill Books, Lionel Leventhal, was replaced by his son. With that transition their business reshuffled, and payments sent to us fell to a very small trickle. A subsequent distributor has sold even less and, in both cases, substantial stocks of books were lost.

5) Finally, during 2006, Mr. Mele and other members of the Chicago Swordplay Guild refused to participate in our joint WMAW/Schola Saint George Symposium held here in DFW. There was a great deal of ugliness written and posted about the organization of the event and predictions of a dire failure, which highlighted the very ugliest side of WMA politics. To be completely frank, this assault on the event given the many hours of coordination, production and the thousands of dollars fronted for it really threw me for a mental loop, and I resolved at that time to transition out of the WMA and possibly out of "sword stuff" altogether. This noise extended far beyond the event itself and I have to believe also contributed to slowing sales of books.

6) Mr. Mele's accusation that we failed to pay printers for the CB titles is false. We have paid every printer we have used--we have had one payment that was late, when the cashflow has been a problem in 2004--but this was paid completely.

7) The assertion that European rights have been sold and not paid for is untrue, although Mr. Mele could not know the details. In fact, we have only exchanged two sets of rights--one for Fighting with the German Longsword (Mr. Tobler) and one for Swordsmans' Companion (Mr. Windsor). Unfortunately, Mr. Tobler's work has generated only $250 worth of royalties paid pack to us (50% of those are due to him from that), and we have received $0 from Mr. Windsor's work. In both cases, we were to have received in trade the English rights to books by those publishers. In one case, we have never received the final manuscript; in the second, we have the manuscript but the translation has never been finished. Any sales of those titles accrue a 50% royalty as derivative sales to the authors. However, as neither is likely to see publication at this late date, it seems moot. We all lost on this one.

Dr. Forgeng's superb book on the Messer was delayed for the very same financial reasons as expressed above. It was due to fall into the same production quality as In Service of the Duke, but, being bitten once, as they say, we went back to the library to negotiate rights for what they call as "monograph" edition, but were unable to secure agreement on a figure that was marketable. I can neither afford nor justify another In Service of the Duke type-project when the first one sold so poorly. The museum wanted $10k for the rights to the "monograph" version, but that still makes it a $20k project--which we haven't had in the last five years and could not justify in any event with royalties outstanding.

Mr. Mele claims that Steve Muhlberger had never been paid for his two books, which is false. Like other authors, he has not received anything since 2006, although to be frank, the amounts we are talking about are exceedingly small (but are still a legitimate debt). Similarly, Mr. Hand still holds many hundreds of dollars of Chivalry Bookshelf stock which he has been free to sell, and presumably has done so. His English Swordsmanship is perhaps our lowest selling book of all time for us, and royalties for that are also very small. SPADA and Medieval Sword and Shield sell better, or did, but have also lost their market momentum. There is little on the balance sheet there, either, and we returned to Mr. Hand the second volume of English Swordsmanship, releasing the rights back to him, which made him angry. We simply did not have the funds to proceed.

9) So, to conclude on the Bookshelf, I freely acknowledge the royalty debt which I owe and which I will pay, as I have paid other legitimate debts in the past. However, one has to be in a position to have sufficient cash-flow to pay said debts, and as I will outline below, I have fought for the last four years to re-achieve such a position.

REVIVAL

Revival.us is a separate business largely run by Ann.

1) Talbot, I am saddened that you truly believe that I in some way stole from you. First, at no point did I ever send any of your pieces for production, casting or otherwise. If you can show any of my pieces that are drawn from yours, or which we have ever produced from yours, I will take back the statement above. But I assure you it did not happen. You indeed sell some of our books and stuff when I was cleaning up the mess from the failed Thornbird Arms shop (which some may recall there were four partners; *only* I every paid back any of the large debt that resulted). . As you well know, my erstwhile "partners" fled the business leaving me with a HUGE debt, and it took a full decade to work through. I could have declared bankruptcy and eliminated the debts, but did not. And there were complaints as I did it, but to my knowledge I finally did all the commissions I am aware of, and even three that were taken by other people in TA's name while I was away at Fort Knox. I apologize for the problems this may have caused you in showing my work and once again thank you for the consideration. Regarding sales at the booth, here I failed you. We very poorly placed the products, giving them about 1/3 of the booth but in an apparently ineffective way. We sold very little, and the shoes on that year carried the sales and drew far too much attention away from that side of the booth. The pairs of missing spurs I cannot account for; they were in the boxes when we packed up and left them for Nicole to pick up and return for you. I did not steal them, nor did we sell them and pocket the cash. Regarding your armour bits, yes, I do acknowledge the debt for these. But the ones in TOMAR are *not* yours, as I still have those at home in the shop. But on your book, I am not sure how you can claim anything was "stolen;" I put in many, many hours on tracking down permissions, but the project just didn't develop and we could not finish it. As you know, traditionally permissions are acquired by the author, and while I freely offered to do it for you, I grossly underestimated the amount of work and it never saw completion. Nothing of yours was ever, as you know, used in any of my projects and this was and is a disappointment, it is hard to see how it is in any way theft. Frankly, I did not know the spur and Pennsic sales issue was a big an issue as it appears here; I will find some way to fix this with you.

2) As for the accusation that we "ripped off" Pakistani craftsmen, this is very easy to answer, although I too must proceed with a limited response as we have initiated legal action pending in Pakistan as a result. My main supplier, for many years, repeatedly sent us sub-par and even substituted products. Over a nine year period, this amounted to $14k in goods and we talked back and forth about it many times in the course of our continued business relationship. Finally, in 2009, we made an order for Pennsic and advanced $9k against an invoice of the same amount. I was told that the products had been shipped, an outright lie, and then the vendor disappeared, to be replaced overnight by Westland Crafts, who offered many of our patterns direct and to wholesalers. We never saw a dime of that $9k in product, and we still have a claim for $14k in products which we could not accept upon receipt here in the states. Westland claims ownership over our gambeson and other patterns, which is one of the points in legal dispute, the other being the $9k payment made to them for fictitious goods.

3) The folks at the Revival booth have also made flying accusations to booth patrons that we ripped off Fettered Cock Pewter for the Fiore pins. I have never made any statement about this because I believed it was an honest misunderstading by the FC people, but, in order to be complete, here is what happened. I commissioned sculpting, molds and pewter castings from FC. We set the terms by email, and on the Ellefante pin, the first project, my commission appeared for sale on the FC website even before I'd received the ones I paid for. I found this distressing, as we had intended to use it for the Schola Saint George, so I contacted them and secured the mold rights for the rest of the three. They refused to grant it for the ellefante, however. We paid several thousand dollars for the sculpting and molds, which is WORK FOR HIRE. That means, we can create derivative works (for the three pins, but not for the ellefante). We did then create some in sterling silver and brass, which FC did not offer. Then, at the same Pennsic when we had Talbot's items and the large shoe display, the FC folks made their displeasure known in a very sharp way, claiming that we did not have the rights to change and replicate the design. But as work for hire, we did for the three pieces. We did not, however, have them for the Ellefante, pin, so I agreed to trade a "release of the molds" to them for our ability to sell all four pins. And, we removed them from the display immediately and never sold them at Pennsic again, except for one, which was sold my mistake by a person in the booth when specifically asked for it. She did not know the story or that we had decided not to sell them at Pennsic. Given that we "released the molds" to them and that they have subsequently sold many of them using the molds I paid for, this is not a debt but was an honest disagreement over what rights are conveyed in "work for hire." I am certain there is no ill-character on the part of the FC people, but I do not agree with their interpretation. They have been compensated for the disagreement already.

4) Regarding our early shoes, only the low boot has any relationship to Talbot's patterning. I acquired two from another craftsman and asked my vendor if he could make something similar, which he did. This was the forerunner of Westland Crafts. Yes, Talbot did the pioneering work on them, but the pieces we used as a sample were not made by Talbot, and the craftsman who did them had made it clear that he had left the business for good. This is the *only* reason we used these as a rough pattern. At the time, footwear was very, very hard to find and my initial thought was just to have a few to help the footwear problem. Yes, the play succeeded, but this doesn't constitute theft. If it does, then why do people not have a problem with Westland or with folks who copied my gauntlet patterns? This is an old debate within the re-enactment community.

5) What is *not* revealed my Mr. Tobler or Mr. Mele in their posts on Revival is that, also during 2006, Mr. Tobler was suddenly, in his words to me written in an email, "working for Nicole" [of Revival Clothing] as she abruptly and without warning left our association (literally overnight), so he has a business interest in his version of events, as does Mr. Mele, at the time Nicole's significant other and still, I believe, an associate. That this abrupt departure had been in the works for some time was clear from the fully finished (and very closely resembling) Revival Clothing site, which Mr. Tobler had created for Nicole, and from the shoes which appeared on the site a few weeks later, indicating that the project had been in place long before the post 2006- complaints happened. This was a coordinated start-up, done while we were all still friends and before the problems with the CB were cited. If not, no effort at "phone calls and emails" cited by Mr. Tobler were made to address the grievances. I have to conclude that during 2006 at least, and perhaps before, Mr. Tobler, Mr. Mele, and Ms. Allen were already working together as a group to set up and run their own business. More power to them, but it was hardly done above-board. And the attacks on me since have a financial and business component.

GAUNTLETS-

Vitus: As you well know, I offered to replace those gauntlets with a stainless pair, and explained to you at the time that I would get to them as soon as possible. They are still first on the list. Of course, we are no longer using that heat-treater--the very same guy who did the gauntlets *I* wear--and I object to your assertion that in some way I tried to defraud you or your squire. As I expressed to you in the FB message, I deeply regret the failure and have already offered a fix. However, as you also well know, I am finishing my dissertation and shop time has been limited.

In going with this heat-treater, I first had him do a pair that I wear still for testing, and they passed with flying colors. On the first production batch, however, they seemed fine until we got them into the field, at which point several broke. I took them off the shelf immediately and have an entire shop full of failed heat-treated gauntlets. We have 1) found a much better heat-treater 2) initiated a testing program for each batch and 3) replaced or offered to replace failed gauntlets and have made every effort to recall the three pairs still outstanding.


MY RESPONSE-

As may be clear from the above, the structural problems with the CB business were evident in 2005 but were starkly clear in 2006. We had already moved our house from CA to TX in 2004 in order to reduce expenses, and there was no further we could cut once we found ourselves beset by business opponents and my error in doing In Service of the Duke.

At that time I'd been out of technology management for five years, and it proved impossible to go back. We did not find ourselves with financial options aplently, so we fed the Revival business and tried to eke out enough to pay the bills, but made little progress, even with new products. Every step forward seem to yield exactly one step backwards. It put an extreme stress on the family, and with the 2006 ugliness with WMAW and the falling business, it was clear we needed a new plan. So I started graduate school to retrain in a new field--history--so that we could leave the sordid world of WMA politics a for the perhaps equally complex world of academic politics. I like teaching, and I think I'm reasonably good at it. A teaching fellow, however, makes $17,500 per year, which is where I've been the past two years (2009-10).

But a doctorate takes a long time and some time/effort. The Bookshelf went onto the back-burner, further reducing revenue possibilities (although I'd already concluded that it wasn't going anywhere and was in a rapid decline anyway). The plan was--and is--to add enough income that we can pay off the outstanding royalties, which we will be able to do in March and April, happily. We thought we had this licked last year, but things fell through. This year looks solid.

Our only income stream was until recently Revival, and it has survived, but not with any significant growth. It chews almost all of the capital brought in, leaving us with very little flexibility, chiefly because of servicing the business debt built up by the Bookshelf. Add to that the copying of our designs by others and the continued aggressive competition from the Revival Clothing and from Mr. Mele and Mr. Tobler's press, things have remained interesting while we've gone about changing our direction.

If authors want the rights to their books, as we have already returned to David Lindholm, then they should contact me directly for a negotiation. Our phone numbers have not changed in 10 years. Email is *not* a reliable channel for critical messaging, and the brian@chivalrybookshelf.com email has not worked since 2008.

My communications during this time have been poor, I will freely admit. The attacks on WMAW (led by Mr. Mele) and the surprise exodus of friendship surrounding Nicole's business came as a sad surprise to me. I didn't respond well, and, things that I overlooked as a friend to Mr. Mele, Ms. Allen and Mr. Tobler in retrospect just make me feel stupid and sad. Unfortunately, by not answering their long campaign, it left the field to them and allowed them to drive the direction of the debate. Very foolish, on my part. They are not entirely wrong, but nor are they entirely right and they are selective in what they choose to report.

In short, I will remain on plan to finish the royalty payouts in April, and then there will be no further Bookshelf titles except for my own, and there are only three of these planned, if they ever come out. Revival.us will continue as a viable business because it is viable, especially once freed from the CB debt.

With Talbot, Vitus, or any other individual who feels personally wronged, I warmly invite you to contact me directly and we'll work out a solution. For Cuan, if my current employment allows me to attend Pennsic, then certainly, we can meet on or off the field to discuss this and any other issue you'd like to broach. If not, the next year I should be more available and at this point, we must have a fight, regardless of how things resolve (or don't). That offer remains open to all.

I understand that some or even many will not be satisfied, and I regret that in the extreme.

I have always said that chivalry is not a matter of acting with perfection (although I wish I were better at it), but is rather a question of making suitable amends after a wrong has occurred. Some of the things that happened in the business have been my fault, others have not. But I have been solely responsible for the communication which has not happened, and while the stresses accruing from a multitude of events corresponding at once in 2006 was great, that does not free me from responsibility and I will continue to pursue remedies.

I can be reached at chronique_editor@yahoo.com.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

Ohboy.

[Christian H. Tobler]

Brian:

Wow. You actually think you're going to excuse your behavior by blaming my expensive book? That this excuses ripoff after ripoff?

But let's talk about what you can afford:

At last call, you lived in a house that could swallow mine 4 times.

You own a collection of rare books of considerable value.

You own armour made by some of the world's finest craftsmen.

You are in a PhD program.

So when you say you can't pay your bills, you're simply a liar. Period.

As for competing businesses, one of the reason we started Freelance is because of the horrendous damage done by you, your lack of ethics, rapidbly declining quality, and the dozens of opportunities you squandered. You've soured authors, institutions, retailers, and customers.

As for Nicole Allen's busines: she parted company with you *because* your practices made her sick. Anyone who knows her business knows she's committed to customer satisfaction; anyone who knows yours knows the opposite.

As for your complaints that everyone has turned against you (me, Greg, Nicole, Talbot, Finvarr, Vitus, most of Christendom) - well, that just doesn't happen to people on the up and up. You've done this entirely on your own, and as self-destructive behavior goes, it's impressive work, but I think you'll find we're all way past "the dog ate my homework."

Christian

[Vitus von Atzinger]

I've done enough. Good luck, everyone.

[Christian H. Tobler]

All,

I'd like it to be known that this is the first time I've heard from Brian since early 2007. It's taken him being publicly called out to even return communications with me regarding the issues with CB.

All the best,

Christian

[Greg Mele]

Brian,

Well-couched lies are still lies; and you may feel justified in your misapplied martyrdom, but the fact remains that you entered into business dealings that you never made good on. All the while, you've increased your standard of living, taken at least two trips to Europe, and have added to your expensive possessions. Is CB funding that? I don't care; there is no "Chivalry Bookshelf" as a legal entity, it is a d/b/a for Brian and Ann Price. Its debts are your debts, which is something that you have never understood.

I will address a few of your points here; largely those which again try to divert attention from the main thrust of the discussion:

Re: your leaving the tech industry to help us all realize our dreams. Brian, you were laid off, along with a vast number of people in the Bay Area, after the .com crash in 2000. You didn't "leave"; you were out of work, with no immediate prospects and decided to try something new. No one held your family ransom to do so, nor did you make a sacrifice for the good of anyone besides yourself and your family: you wanted a new career. Nothing wrong with that, but there is nothing inherently noble in it, either. It is irrelevant to the conversation, other than as an obfuscation.

Re: Fettered Cock. I don't recall anyone here saying anything about an issue between yourself and Cess or Menken. So, rather than diverting attention from what *was* said here, let's stay in topic, shall we? Of course, we can invite the folks from FC to discuss any issues that they might have...

5) Finally, during 2006, Mr. Mele and other members of the Chicago Swordplay Guild refused to participate in our joint WMAW/Schola Saint George Symposium held here in DFW. There was a great deal of ugliness written and posted about the organization of the event and predictions of a dire failure, which highlighted the very ugliest side of WMA politics.

You have written this to people repeatedly, and it is also a bold-faced lie. Let's look at what happened. We - the CSG - gave you written descriptions of each job description for the committee, our database, our website. You sat on this - my student Dave Peck, who had the database, wrote you TWENTY TWO emails trying to make sure all was working - you replied to one and then months later, had the gall to say that he never provided you anything. This is a common bait and switch with you - do not reply to calls or emails and then claim you never received them.

No one "boycotted" your event. Instead, as the founder of the event, I received repeated inquiries of concern from instructors saying that they could not get a hold of you, could not confirm travel arrangements, had no idea what they were teaching, and the event was not open for registration. It was late JUNE. The event was in SEPTEMBER. You dismissed this and told me that you couldn't get anything done until after Pennsic.

At that point Jorg Bellinghausen said it was impossible for him to get time off of work and fly in from Germany with no clear idea of what was going on, and declined to come, Tom Leoni declined, as did a few others. You STILL could not handle this, and instead began to call and write Pete Kautz and Sean Hayes claiming that you were being defamed - rather than just doing the job you had been assigned.

Finally, Robert Holland stepped in as the instructor liaison. Contrary to your claims, Brian, I wrote all of the instructors and asked them to support Robert and to do what it took to make the event work. That was done on both the Yahoo Group and in private email. Robert is one of your best friends and can back me up on this. I will also be more than happy to post those emails here.

You responded by removing me from the instructor list - from the event that I founded - I did not decide not to attend.

Again, the CSG did not boycott the event. Three of our members attended, including John O'Meara, one of my senior-most scholars and the head of our rapier program.

So the "ugliness" was that your guests complained to me, because you would not reply, and I held you accountable to do the job that I and the CSG entrusted you, and you responded like a petulant child, removed me from the attendee list and dumped the mess of Robert Holland's lap - who did the best he could to salvage things. I never said one bad word about Robert, the SSG or the event - only about your handling of things. Indeed, the very next year I invited two SSG instructors - Robert Holland and Colin Hatcher - to teach at WMAW.

Finally, you then used this as an excuse not to pay royalties. I have an email from you to Tom Leoni wherein you claim that my "sabotage" of the event made it impossible for you to pay royalties at that time - as if these things were intertwined.

Reality is a harsh mistress, Brian. You were the one at fault, and all you were asked to do was your job.

6) Mr. Mele's accusation that we failed to pay printers for the CB titles is false. We have paid every printer we have used--we have had one payment that was late, when the cashflow has been a problem in 2004--but this was paid completely.

I have query emails from 2004 and 2006, from two different printers. I DO know, that what you began to do during 2004 was play jumping printers - because you kept ending up in hock to a new source. You can call that cash-flow problems, but in the real world it is called fraud.

Perhaps you resolved these issues, perhaps you did not. Either way, it is a pattern of behavior that extends to your dealings with your authors, your former business partners, and your current suppliers. Again, everyone can't be a liar.

7) The assertion that European rights have been sold and not paid for is untrue, although Mr. Mele could not know the details.

What you ignore here is that your contract requires you to notify the authors - who only found out through third parties. So, whether the books made thousands and collected lint, how you handled the foreign editions undermines your credibility.

Mr. Mele claims that Steve Muhlberger had never been paid for his two books, which is false. Like other authors, he has not received anything since 2006, although to be frank, the amounts we are talking about are exceedingly small (but are still a legitimate debt).

Check your publication dates, Brian. Would you care to list here how much you paid, on what dates, and on what check number?
You forget, I have access to the contracts, I also had access to sales numbers, and I know the authors.

As to the other authors not being paid since 2006, well, it is 2011 - being four and a half years in remiss on payment is not "behind"; it is theft. Try to do this with creditors and see what happens.

I will also call attention to what Brian doesn't address - the other authors to whom he has never paid anything, such as myself or John Michael Greer, or the authors whom he has not paid since 2002, like Mark Rector. Or how books with multiple printings, such as Highland Swordsmanship, garnered one payment? After all, that book came out in 2001.He is ten years late on your payments. The same with Arte Gladiatoria; I never saw a cent, and Luca had not been paid since after the first year - that would be the end of 2002.

Further, Brian, you wish to drag Revival Clothing into this, so let's recall why Ms. Allen separated her business from yours. Besides learning the true nature of your leather good designs, she had shared a shopping cart and shipping facility with you. Payment due her was routinely late, to the point that on several occasions you almost prevented her from not only not being able to restock product, but to pay her own bills - while you held her money hostage. In addition to this, your constant, chronic customer service issues were damaging her reputation, so she parted ways.

You also are "forgetting" that the leather goods line was introduced after the departure , that the website was developed from the ground up by Christian Tobler, and that it took years for you to quit using her photos on the Revival.us website. The "conspiracy" was that she and her team were working hard and having their money held, "miscounted" and wrong products shipped by an independent firm that they had a relationship with.

What is very misleading is that you act as if Revival Clothing was somehow a subsidiary, when it was nothing of the sort - it was an independently owned and operated business. In reality, you failed in your role as a distributor, website service and customer service firm, so she fired you and made sure that she had a replacement in place when she did so. That is called normal business practices

And again, Revival Clothing and your leather goods line really hasn't anything to do with Chivalry Bookshelf, but does provide one more example of people telling the same story about one person: you.

Brian, when someone is in business, they get paid last, not first. That is doubly true of a sole proprietorship, which is what CB is or was. It is Brian and Ann Price d/b/a Chivalry Bookshelf. That means that *you* are obligated to those debts.

You admit to having debts, yet you drive a Jaguar and your wife a Durango. Your daughter takes private riding lessons, you live in a 6k sf house. Arguing that this was the benefit of selling a home in California to move somewhere cheaper is moot - you still owe these debts. You don't get to have nice things on the backs of others. Can't pay those debts? Sell your property.

When confronted on your debts, you told myself and others - in writing "everyone would like to get into my pockets and get their pound of flesh, but I will not jeopardize my family's standard of living". That sounds noble until one realizes that you have done that through theft and defrauding honest people - repeatedly.

It is time that you quit living in denial - it is time you acknowledge that not everyone can be telling tales - the same tales - when they don't even know each other. There is a much more likely possibility: we are all telling the truth.

[Talbot]

Brian,
All I can say is this. With these business practices one can be a successful business man. No ethics are required. However one cannot be a knight in this manner.

This is your renown. It is based on the seeds you have sown.

[Leo Medii]

Hello Brian, since you have seen this thread, could you contact me about my gauntlet order I placed quite a long time ago?

Thanks for your time.

[Christian H. Tobler]

Dear all,

I'm working my way through various things raised here, and I'd like to expand commentary on two items.

First, Mr. Price attempt to "push back" responsibility for problems onto me, implying it was incumbent upon me to walk to his booth and ask for my money or books.

Well, no, it wasn't and isn't. By early 2007, I abandoned, in despair, any hope of remuneration, or getting further copies of my own books. More than a dozen phone messages, some of them made in a considerably heated tone, and an equal number of emails, had gone unanswered. Further, I had good reason to believe that this was willful, for my last email from Brian had been an angry one...

And that brings me to item 2. Brian's timeline regarding the relationship between Chivalry Bookshelf/Revival US and Revival Clothing is distorted. In actuality, the businesses had been quite separate by late 2006. As this occurred, I made it crystal clear to both Brian and Ms. Allen that I had every intention of remaining on good terms with both of them, and their respective businesses. I also made it clear, in sterner terms, that I would not be involved in industrial espionage: that is, I wouldn't be sharing confidential information from one to the other.

Nicole was always fine with the above. However, in late 2006, when it became known that Revival Clothing was to produce its own leather goods line, Brian was very angry, writing me an email to complain that began along the lines of " Dear 'friend' ". I wrote back to remind him that I not at liberty to disclose Nicole's product development plans to him, nor vice-versa.

Shortly after that, the royalties ceased. It's impossible to definitely prove this as causal, but I'm not big fan of the idea of coincidence where human motivations are involved.

Why is this important to point out? Because it speaks to a pattern of unjust entitlement. Things like payments don't seem to be obligatory to Mr. Price; rather he seems to view himself as doing us a favor by extending his largesse. Not on his good side? Then you don't 'deserve' the contractual obligation of remuneration.

Now, Mr. Price is somewhat correct in one sense regarding my not directly confronting him. I should have: not because I was owed money, but because I should've acted in the interests of others who I could have spared much pain and trouble.

Folks - do not be deceived. I know it's easy to say, but this really isn't about the money. While I enjoy some mad money as much as anyone else, I don't earn my living on royalties, seminars, helping out Nicole occassionally, or in disclosing CB's shenanigans. The roof over my head is paid for by my real world job: consulting engineer. Without gauchely discussing numbers, let me ask the reader to weigh this: I have 25 years of experience in the analytical instrumentation business. Add up all the income from my 'passions' and it's still a drop in the bucket of my household finances. Maybe someday it might be otherwise, but I'm not betting the farm...

Instead, my 'need' to post here has been driven by a few goings-on of late. There have been several threads on the subject that I've 'bitten my tongue' on, plus I just discovered during a symposium in Vancouver but last week that "Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship" has been reprinted yet again - I know because the cover is different now (casebound, instead of dust jacketed, clothbound).

Put simply, the voice in my head - "all of this must stop" - is no longer a whisper.

And if you're skimming this, finding it too lengthy a post, just re-read Talbot's last post above: it really says it all.

All the best,

Christian

[Greg Mele]

All,

I realized that I had written my last reply a bit too quickly and went in to clarify some of the issues I addressed. I deleted nothing, merely added to it.

Thanks!

Greg

[Lady Charlotte]

Hello, everyone,

I'm an academic librarian who's only lurked in this Forum, till now, but after reading this thread, I've felt compelled to provide you all with a link to a discussion of Chivalry Bookshelf's edition of Ramon Lull's Book of Knighthood and Chivalry and the anonymous Ordene [sic] de Chevalerie ("translated by William Caxton / rendered into modern English by Brian R. Price") at the website of the Morris Online Edition at the library of the University of Iowa, under the heading "Reception":

But perhaps the most striking instance of the afterlife of this volume is a little book published by The Chivalry Bookshelf in 2001, entitled Ramon Lull’s Book of Knighthood and Chivalry and the anonymous Ordene [sic] de Chevalerie ("translated by William Caxton / Rendered into modern English by Brian R. Price"). This book is avowedly a work of enthusiasm by Price, who writes in his introduction that "with the growing convergence between students of chivalric lore, reenactors, Western martial artists, and medievalists – the time seems right to release this new version. I hope it brings much pleasurable contemplation and provokes thought along [sic] what it meant – and what it means – to be a knight" (iii). There is no reason why Price should have included both works together, except that William Morris had once done so in his Kelmscott edition of 1892-3. In fact, a close look at Price’s edition reveals that he has stolen Morris’ translation verbatim for the entire text of the Ordène, and gives Morris no credit whatsoever. Indeed, he does not mention Morris even once throughout his entire introduction, nor anywhere in the book 5. Although Morris’ work is certainly in the public domain, Price’s appropriation of it without attribution is a decidedly unchivalrous piece of plagiarism. And yet this lately-pirated edition, too, is an example of the long reach of Morris’ influence in unexpected places – as a translator, as a medievalist, and as a shaper of the canon.

If, as I've read here, Mr. Price is now a Ph.D. candidate at a U.S. university, could someone please furnish me with the information concerning the program in which he is enrolled given that such a failure to give credit to William Morris is not in keeping either with the chivalrous code or academic ethics? I don't know him personally and have never, to my knowledge, encountered him, but the prospect of someone of his "ethics" being awarded a doctorate horrifies me.

Lady Charlotte

[Peikko]

Hello, everyone,

I'm an academic librarian who's only lurked in this Forum, till now, but after reading this thread, I've felt compelled to provide you all with a link to a discussion of Chivalry Bookshelf's edition of Ramon Lull’s Book of Knighthood and Chivalry and the anonymous Ordene [sic] de Chevalerie ("translated by William Caxton / rendered into modern English by Brian R. Price") at the website of the Morris Online Edition at the library of the University of Iowa, under the heading "Reception":

But perhaps the most striking instance of the afterlife of this volume is a little book published by The Chivalry Bookshelf in 2001, entitled Ramon Lull’s Book of Knighthood and Chivalry and the anonymous Ordene [sic] de Chevalerie ("translated by William Caxton / Rendered into modern English by Brian R. Price"). This book is avowedly a work of enthusiasm by Price, who writes in his introduction that "with the growing convergence between students of chivalric lore, reenactors, Western martial artists, and medievalists – the time seems right to release this new version. I hope it brings much pleasurable contemplation and provokes thought along [sic] what it meant – and what it means – to be a knight" (iii). There is no reason why Price should have included both works together, except that William Morris had once done so in his Kelmscott edition of 1892-3. In fact, a close look at Price’s edition reveals that he has stolen Morris’ translation verbatim for the entire text of the Ordène, and gives Morris no credit whatsoever. Indeed, he does not mention Morris even once throughout his entire introduction, nor anywhere in the book 5. Although Morris’ work is certainly in the public domain, Price’s appropriation of it without attribution is a decidedly unchivalrous piece of plagiarism. And yet this lately-pirated edition, too, is an example of the long reach of Morris’ influence in unexpected places – as a translator, as a medievalist, and as a shaper of the canon.

If, as I've read here, Mr. Price is now a Ph.D. candidate at a U.S. university, could someone please furnish me with the information concerning the program in which he is enrolled given that such a failure to give credit to William Morris is not in keeping either with the chivalrous code or academic ethics? I don't know him personally and have never, to my knowledge, encountered him, but the prospect of someone of his "ethics" being awarded a doctorate horrifies me.

Lady Charlotte

Ironically I had debated whether or not to use Brian's translation in my thesis instead of the one in Caxton. I guess it might not have made any difference in the end

If this is true, that is naughty....very naughty

[Aaron]

Hello, everyone,

I'm an academic librarian who's only lurked in this Forum, till now, but after reading this thread, I've felt compelled to provide you all with a link to a discussion of Chivalry Bookshelf's edition of Ramon Lull’s Book of Knighthood and Chivalry and the anonymous Ordene [sic] de Chevalerie ("translated by William Caxton / rendered into modern English by Brian R. Price") at the website of the Morris Online Edition at the library of the University of Iowa, under the heading "Reception":

But perhaps the most striking instance of the afterlife of this volume is a little book published by The Chivalry Bookshelf in 2001, entitled Ramon Lull’s Book of Knighthood and Chivalry and the anonymous Ordene [sic] de Chevalerie ("translated by William Caxton / Rendered into modern English by Brian R. Price"). This book is avowedly a work of enthusiasm by Price, who writes in his introduction that "with the growing convergence between students of chivalric lore, reenactors, Western martial artists, and medievalists – the time seems right to release this new version. I hope it brings much pleasurable contemplation and provokes thought along [sic] what it meant – and what it means – to be a knight" (iii). There is no reason why Price should have included both works together, except that William Morris had once done so in his Kelmscott edition of 1892-3. In fact, a close look at Price’s edition reveals that he has stolen Morris’ translation verbatim for the entire text of the Ordène, and gives Morris no credit whatsoever. Indeed, he does not mention Morris even once throughout his entire introduction, nor anywhere in the book 5. Although Morris’ work is certainly in the public domain, Price’s appropriation of it without attribution is a decidedly unchivalrous piece of plagiarism. And yet this lately-pirated edition, too, is an example of the long reach of Morris’ influence in unexpected places – as a translator, as a medievalist, and as a shaper of the canon.

If, as I've read here, Mr. Price is now a Ph.D. candidate at a U.S. university, could someone please furnish me with the information concerning the program in which he is enrolled given that such a failure to give credit to William Morris is not in keeping either with the chivalrous code or academic ethics? I don't know him personally and have never, to my knowledge, encountered him, but the prospect of someone of his "ethics" being awarded a doctorate horrifies me.

Lady Charlotte

Oh boy. Game on!

Ethics problems in graduate school are a no-no.

[Kel Rekuta]

Utter fantasy. Kes did the art and molds then you ripped her off. You told her if she didn't like it she could sue you. I would sooner believe a rabid baboon's press releases than your megalomaniacal ravings. Twerp!

3) The folks at the Revival booth have also made flying accusations to booth patrons that we ripped off Fettered Cock Pewter for the Fiore pins. I have never made any statement about this because I believed it was an honest misunderstading by the FC people, but, in order to be complete, here is what happened. I commissioned sculpting, molds and pewter castings from FC. We set the terms by email, and on the Ellefante pin, the first project, my commission appeared for sale on the FC website even before I'd received the ones I paid for. I found this distressing, as we had intended to use it for the Schola Saint George, so I contacted them and secured the mold rights for the rest of the three. They refused to grant it for the ellefante, however. We paid several thousand dollars for the sculpting and molds, which is WORK FOR HIRE. That means, we can create derivative works (for the three pins, but not for the ellefante). We did then create some in sterling silver and brass, which FC did not offer. Then, at the same Pennsic when we had Talbot's items and the large shoe display, the FC folks made their displeasure known in a very sharp way, claiming that we did not have the rights to change and replicate the design. But as work for hire, we did for the three pieces. We did not, however, have them for the Ellefante, pin, so I agreed to trade a "release of the molds" to them for our ability to sell all four pins. And, we removed them from the display immediately and never sold them at Pennsic again, except for one, which was sold my mistake by a person in the booth when specifically asked for it. She did not know the story or that we had decided not to sell them at Pennsic. Given that we "released the molds" to them and that they have subsequently sold many of them using the molds I paid for, this is not a debt but was an honest disagreement over what rights are conveyed in "work for hire." I am certain there is no ill-character on the part of the FC people, but I do not agree with their interpretation. They have been compensated for the disagreement already.

[Signo]

http://hankerings.files.wordpress.com/2 ... 42_std.jpg

[Greg Mele]

Wow. You really never do know how deep the rabbit hole goes....

But perhaps the most striking instance of the afterlife of this volume is a little book published by The Chivalry Bookshelf in 2001, entitled Ramon Lull’s Book of Knighthood and Chivalry and the anonymous Ordene [sic] de Chevalerie ("translated by William Caxton / Rendered into modern English by Brian R. Price"). This book is avowedly a work of enthusiasm by Price, who writes in his introduction that "with the growing convergence between students of chivalric lore, reenactors, Western martial artists, and medievalists – the time seems right to release this new version. I hope it brings much pleasurable contemplation and provokes thought along [sic] what it meant – and what it means – to be a knight" (iii). There is no reason why Price should have included both works together, except that William Morris had once done so in his Kelmscott edition of 1892-3. In fact, a close look at Price’s edition reveals that he has stolen Morris’ translation verbatim for the entire text of the Ordène, and gives Morris no credit whatsoever. Indeed, he does not mention Morris even once throughout his entire introduction, nor anywhere in the book 5. Although Morris’ work is certainly in the public domain, Price’s appropriation of it without attribution is a decidedly unchivalrous piece of plagiarism. And yet this lately-pirated edition, too, is an example of the long reach of Morris’ influence in unexpected places – as a translator, as a medievalist, and as a shaper of the canon.

The irony of "Chivalry Bookshelf" plagiarizing a translation of "Ordene de Chevalerie" is, well....I guess the above quote beat me to it. I can say that, at least until 2004 or 2005, the "Book of Knighthood" was one of CB's best-sellers.

What is astounding is that there is a good reason to not pay royalties - not an ethical one, of course, but from purely, self-serving motives - but this is work in the public domain. Which means that Brian didn't steal money from the dead - he stole their name.

Consider this:

1. if this is all a vast conspiracy hatched by Talbot, Christian and I (plus an apparent host of others who never even posted here),then we're a lot more powerful than *I* realized: the University of Iowa library has been lured into the web.

2. a website of trained, professional academics, dedicated to the work of William Morris somehow got this wrong.

3. Or maybe, just maybe, what we've said all along is true: everyone else can't be the ones telling tales and doing dirty business.

I used to be a journalist, and then worked in corporate communications - plagiarism was all seven deadly sins rolled into one, combined with telling children that Santa Claus was a pedophile - it was the unspeakable, unforgivable sin. I can only imagine it is the same in academia.

Assuming all is as it says - and a side-by-side read through suggests that it is, then stealing from me is wrong. But from the dead? Dude, that's cold.

[Adrielle Kerrec]

This is your renown. It is based on the seeds you have sown.

Well said Talbot.

[andras]

Hello, everyone,

I'm an academic librarian who's only lurked in this Forum, till now, but after reading this thread, I've felt compelled to provide you all with a link to a discussion of Chivalry Bookshelf's edition of Ramon Lull’s Book of Knighthood and Chivalry and the anonymous Ordene [sic] de Chevalerie ("translated by William Caxton / rendered into modern English by Brian R. Price") at the website of the Morris Online Edition at the library of the University of Iowa, under the heading "Reception":

But perhaps the most striking instance of the afterlife of this volume is a little book published by The Chivalry Bookshelf in 2001, entitled Ramon Lull’s Book of Knighthood and Chivalry and the anonymous Ordene [sic] de Chevalerie ("translated by William Caxton / Rendered into modern English by Brian R. Price"). This book is avowedly a work of enthusiasm by Price, who writes in his introduction that "with the growing convergence between students of chivalric lore, reenactors, Western martial artists, and medievalists – the time seems right to release this new version. I hope it brings much pleasurable contemplation and provokes thought along [sic] what it meant – and what it means – to be a knight" (iii). There is no reason why Price should have included both works together, except that William Morris had once done so in his Kelmscott edition of 1892-3. In fact, a close look at Price’s edition reveals that he has stolen Morris’ translation verbatim for the entire text of the Ordène, and gives Morris no credit whatsoever. Indeed, he does not mention Morris even once throughout his entire introduction, nor anywhere in the book 5. Although Morris’ work is certainly in the public domain, Price’s appropriation of it without attribution is a decidedly unchivalrous piece of plagiarism. And yet this lately-pirated edition, too, is an example of the long reach of Morris’ influence in unexpected places – as a translator, as a medievalist, and as a shaper of the canon.

If, as I've read here, Mr. Price is now a Ph.D. candidate at a U.S. university, could someone please furnish me with the information concerning the program in which he is enrolled given that such a failure to give credit to William Morris is not in keeping either with the chivalrous code or academic ethics? I don't know him personally and have never, to my knowledge, encountered him, but the prospect of someone of his "ethics" being awarded a doctorate horrifies me.

Lady Charlotte

Mr. Brian R. Price's webpage shows he is a PhD candidate at The University of North Texas in Dallas.

His Facebook page Brian R Price

I suggest those who have evidence of plagiarism contact the university immediately, as his facebook page says he is in the class of 2011, and there is no time to waste - or drop the matter.

For the rest of you, I suggest you stand by your comments against him and file civil and criminal charges - or drop the matter.

[Russ Mitchell]

Yeah. This is the guy who tried to get me to translate the Life of William Marshall (thousands of hours of work), when he already knew the Anglo-Norman Text Society had done the job and might or might not be releasing it. After I had him under my roof to house-hunt and relocate.

From my personal experience alone I trust him about as far as I can throw a piano, and certainly have no intention of ever purchasing from the man or his businesses.

[andras]

I'm serious about passing on your evidence to the appropriate authorities.

If you have evidence of fraud or serious plagiarism, it's your duty to do so.

If you are wrong about the quality or veracity of your evidence, you put Mr. Price in a position where he can mount a definitive defense.

As it stands, his reputation is sullied and he cannot defend himself from the claims against him.

Give him his day in court or recant your accusations.

[Aaron]

I think this is firmly in the Court of Public Opinion now, where we are the jury. Hiring a lawyer might be good for those who have been hurt by this, but the Court of Public Opinion seems to be giving a guilty verdit.

[Christian H. Tobler]

Andras,

Mr. Price has *admitted* in this very thread that he has *not* paid royalties to his authors since 2007.

As for further remedy being sought: count on it.

All the best,

Christian

[andras]

Andras,

Mr. Price has *admitted* in this very thread that he has *not* paid royalties to his authors since 2007.

As for further remedy being sought: count on it.

All the best,

Christian

He has been accused of not paying royalties since 2000 or 2001 to some authors. He has been accused of fraud, for example, switching printers because he knowingly wasn't going to pay them. He has been accused of plagiarism which, in the profession he is training to enter, is a very serious thing. Probably some more stuff, but I'm not going to re-read the thread to find each and every complaint.

I do not recall that he admitted to those claims.

Since I have no way of knowing the actual facts in this case, I'll close with this prayer,

"Let Justice Be Done, and May Each Party to This Complaint Get Their Just Due."

[Vitus von Atzinger]

I just remembered the Mencken incident. Sheesh.

[Christian H. Tobler]

Hi Andras,

Fair enough, and as said earlier, there are wheels already turning that may not be apparent here. My own accusation stands: I have not been paid royalties since early 2007; this accusation is consistent with Mr. Price's own admissions.

As for the accusation of plagiarism, please do keep in mind that this is not my accusation (in fact, I haven't mentioned it until this very post), but from the University of Iowa's library.

All the best,

Christian

[Brandr]

Brian Price has always dealt fairly and honorably with me & mine both on a personal level and a business level and I respect him for it.


Jason Willis

[chris19d]

I find it amusing, that in the sca no mater what someones done and how much evidence of their actions there is, theres always at least one person willing to stand up for them.

[Morgan]

It's amazing what can be read into a statement.

Ted Bundy never murdered anyone in my family. Am I standing up for him?

[Kilkenny]

I find it amusing, that in the sca no mater what someones done and how much evidence of their actions there is, theres always at least one person willing to stand up for them.

Oddly enough, it's not just the SCA where such a thing is found.

Nor is it only the SCA where when one stands up for someone, there is another ready to attack them for it.

Consider whether or not you would want someone to stand up for you.

I can say very much the same thing that Brandr has said, in that I have known Brian, to a limited degree, for over twenty years. In that time he has not done wrong to me or mine. Indeed, I and one of my household knights both still use Thornbird bascinets.

However, if you attempt to suggest that in saying this I am defending Brian on the matters raised here, I shall have to throw you into that class of people who sit around waiting for the opportunity to throw their little stones, without regard to their targets.