"The Sword in Two Hands by Brian Price" review wan

[Broadway]

Brian Price has always dealt fairly and honorably with me & mine both on a personal level and a business level and I respect him for it.


Jason Willis

[chris19d]

I shall have to throw you into that class of people who sit around waiting for the opportunity to throw their little stones, without regard to their targets.

As I have stated in one of the various threads on this subject, I have had dealing with him and found him less than honorable, admittedly my experience (lying repeatedly about shipping an item, and finally shipping it when he got sick of me harassing him about it) is one of his lesser missdeeds, but I'm not just joining ion on the thread to "throw stones"

Consider whether or not you would want someone to stand up for you

Were I in his shoes with a trail of misdeeds that extends for decades, I would not expect anyone to be willing to stand up for me or vouch for my character, and even less would I expect someone to state they respected me.

Admittedly its not just the sca but to me it seems more prevalent here than elsewhere, theres always someone willing to step forward and excuse the actions of a wayward armorer who made off with peoples money, or some other miscreant.

[Kel Rekuta]

I'm serious about passing on your evidence to the appropriate authorities.

If you have evidence of fraud or serious plagiarism, it's your duty to do so.

If you are wrong about the quality or veracity of your evidence, you put Mr. Price in a position where he can mount a definitive defense.

As it stands, his reputation is sullied and he cannot defend himself from the claims against him.

Give him his day in court or recant your accusations.

No, you expect far too much from the legal system. He operates his business internationally and is very clear on how little chance of prosecution he faces from non-Americans. It seems to fit well into his modus operandi.

The reality of commercial legal action is one of expense versus expected return. Price is fully aware that his individual creditors are unable to realize any gain from legal action due to the Byzantine nature of modern legal systems. Reputation in business is inestimable in hard currency. Once exposed, disreputable practice can be curtailed. Goodwill is hard won and easily lost. What goes around, comes around. Good riddance!

[Gerhard von Liebau]

BEST. THREAD. EVA!!!!

[Menken]

I don’t often read the Armour Archive, but was referred to this thread by friends, and I’m only entering the conversation at this point because Brian Price chose to bring my wife into it. It is, however, gratifying to see that the truth about Brian’s unsavory business practices, which has been well-known within the medieval recreationist/martial arts merchant community for years, is becoming common knowledge at last. As Talbot pointed out, Brian is finally gaining the renown he always craved, but not in a good way.

These are not isolated incidents, but dozens, and they comprise a repetitive and systemic pattern of cheating and deceit - and the only common factor linking them all is Brian Price.

My wife Kes is the proprietor of Fettered Cock Pewters, one of Brian’s many victims. From personal experience I can tell you that almost everything Brian said in regards to his dealings with Fettered Cock Pewters is a lie, as Kel Rekuta so aptly put it: “utter fantasy”. In partricular, Brian’s comment that he “paid several thousand dollars for the sculpting and molds” is one of his more bizarre fabrications.

I won’t go into further details here, but just to clear the air on a few major points:

- Kes did not grant permission for Brian to “create derivative works” of her molds - she never does. She always retains the original molds in her possession and maintains complete artistic control of her work. Brian made bootleg copies of Fettered Cock badges.

- Brian’s assertion that Kes has “been compensated for the disagreement already” is a bald-faced lie. Nothing of the sort ever happened. Not even an apology. What she did get in her final encounter with him was vitriol and bullying. Yes, on top of everything else, the man is a bully who attempted to intimidate my wife (a woman of small stature) by shouting at her and invoking his lawyers. Brian only backed down after being confronted by myself and other merchants at Pennsic, no doubt worried that the Coopers would evict him if we brought his illegal practices to their attention.

I’m in total amazement that Brian Price can brazenly continue to spout his lies in the face of the mounting evidence put forth on this Archive by person after person.

As has been amply demonstrated by the testimony of many worthy and reputable people on this Archive, Brian Price has repeatedly proven himself to be a liar and a cheat, and not to be trusted.

The man is a discredit to his belt, and an embarrassment to all of us in the Order. It is a disgrace that the SCA allows him to continue to style himself `knight`.

Menken

[Chan Lancelot]

I wasn't an author of Chivalry bookshelf but I was on their affiliate program for about a year or more. I have never received the cheques they claimed to have sent and every time I asked them to resend, they deducted a certain amount from my share as "resending cheque fee". Then again, I did not receive anything. So after several tries with my account deducted half, I asked them to pay through paypal which I received. Since then I stopped to put up the affiliate program banner for them.

Hello all,

Hmm infamy? Is this the brian price who stole thousands of dollars from people wanting to play in the SCA and then never delivered the armor? It happens often it seems.

Ok. I've been holding my tongue on this for a long time now, but I see more and more inquiries about the state of Brian's business and I can no longer remain silent in good conscience, despite the possible personal fallout.

So, here's a former Chivalry Bookshelf author's perspective.

I have not seen one dime from Mr. Price in the form of royalties in over three years now. I stopped trying to extract said monies in 2007, after it became clear that any attempts at either getting paid or even receiving copies of my own books were going to simply be ignored. Phone calls and emails went unanswered, and the books and cheques stopped coming.

I am not alone in this experience. Mr. Price continues to reprint and reprint my titles without any form of remuneration. He's done this to other authors too, some of whom have *never* received royalties.

Regardless of what we may think of his book that is in question here, in doing business with the man, you're supporting a dishonest person who has betrayed the chivalric principles he claims to support while lining his pockets with ill-gained money.

It truly pains me to have to do this. I worked with Chivalry Bookshelf for several years, and once considered Brian a friend. But this kind of behavior has nothing to do with chivalry, and even less to do with friendship, and it's time to start looking out for others so that they don't go through what I and others have gone through.

Yours most truly,

Christian

[bend_gules]

...I believed it was an honest misunderstading by the FC people, but, in order to be complete, here is what happened. I commissioned sculpting, molds and pewter castings from FC. We set the terms by email, and on the Ellefante pin, the first project, my commission appeared for sale on the FC website even before I'd received the ones I paid for. I found this distressing, as we had intended to use it for the Schola Saint George, so I contacted them and secured the mold rights for the rest of the three.

Fettered Cock Pewters has carried an 'elephant and castle' since early 2002, when FC Pewters first went online - at least, according to the Wayback Machine. Unfortunately, the photo isn't stored, but the text description is consistent from early 2002 through to mid-2006, and later caches of the site do include the pic.

Looks like it was a stock item, long before Brian approached FC with a Fiore set idea.

http://web.archive.org/web/200302071437 ... adges.html

They refused to grant it for the ellefante, however. We paid several thousand dollars for the sculpting and molds, which is WORK FOR HIRE. That means, we can create derivative works (for the three pins, but not for the ellefante). We did then create some in sterling silver and brass, which FC did not offer.

It was the badges Brian was selling at Pennsic that year, the ones with the maker's mark filed off the back, that really upset Kes.

Since she still held the molds, it's hard to see how these copied badges could have gotten into circulation legitimately, particularly with her mark deliberately removed.

Gf
former Fettered Cock shop monkey

[Vitus von Atzinger]

Dude! I mean, really?

Move over Eric Cartman.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-ep ... -show-ever

This episode explains the Mental Gymnastics that true assholes employ.

[Chris Cottrell]

The reality of commercial legal action is one of expense versus expected return. Price is fully aware that his individual creditors are unable to realize any gain from legal action due to the Byzantine nature of modern legal systems. Reputation in business is inestimable in hard currency. Once exposed, disreputable practice can be curtailed. Goodwill is hard won and easily lost. What goes around, comes around. Good riddance!

This isn't primarily a collections issue, based on the aired grievances, it's an intellectual property rights issue, which is pretty easy to prove in court if there's evidence of a breach in contract (which Mr. Price's post may constitute, considering his admittance of nonpayment to authors their royalties, however small they may be).

The futility of legal action is more myth than fact. Especially in these kinds of cases. In the case of publisher breach of contract, authors are most likely looking at return of copyright, possible seizure of unsold stock, and/or payment of lost royalties in addition to legal fees. Chances of settlement are high.

But, and I can't stress this enough, don't take my word on it. Talk to an intellectual property rights attorney. I'm in the publishing industry and have friends I can tap for info who have been through the process, but everyone in this matter needs to be talking with an expert, of which there are few in most online forums. In fact, anyone who has a legitimate grievance should probably consider keeping their thoughts offline at this point.

The caveat emptor is out, no need to continue here.

[Lady Charlotte]

Hello, Johann,

Ironically I had debated whether or not to use Brian's translation in my thesis instead of the one in Caxton. I guess it might not have made any difference in the end

If this is true, that is naughty....very naughty

You and anyone else who owns a copy of the Chivalry Bookshelf edition can determine for themselves whether it is true by comparing it to the William Morris edition, which is available at the Morris Online Edition hosted by the Libraries of the University of Iowa.

If you don't own a copy of the Chivalry Bookshelf edition, you can likely borrow a copy from your local library or by InterLibraryLoan. See listings on WorldCat for availability

Lady Charlotte

[Lady Charlotte]

I'm serious about passing on your evidence to the appropriate authorities.

If you have evidence of fraud or serious plagiarism, it's your duty to do so.

The only person(s) who have legal standing to report fraud are those against whom the fraud has been committed.

That said, there are a number of avenues other than litigation -- which can be prohibitively expensive, depending on the circumstances -- to seek possible redress or at least to warn others about a dishonest businessperson:

1. One can file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau: https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx The BBB states that:

BBB's goal is to successfully resolve complaints involving buyers and sellers in a fair and timely fashion. This includes complaints involving consumer-to-business and business-to-business transactions that involve the advertisement and/or sale of a product or service. Information concerning the nature and resolution of complaints filed with BBB is used in developing BBB Reliability ReportsTM on companies. BBB accepts complaints whether or not the business is a BBB Accredited Business.

BBB generally does not handle complaints which are more effectively handled by other government or private agencies or the legal system, such as complaints involving employment practices, discrimination, or matters in litigation. Click here for more detailed BBB Complaint Acceptance Guidelines.

BBB strongly encourages consumers to first attempt to resolve complaints directly with the company, however BBB will not reject a complaint if a consumer has not taken this step. All complaints are processed by local BBBs, most often the BBB where the company is located. Historically, over 70% of complaints filed through BBB are resolved. In some cases, BBB mediation or arbitration may be offered to assist in resolution.

Your complaint will be forwarded to the company within two business days. The company will be asked to respond within 14 days, and if a response is not received, a second request will be made. You will be notified of the company's response when we receive it (or notified that we received no response). Complaints are usually closed within 30 calendar days.

2. One can file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission Bureau of Consumer Protection: https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/

The Federal Trade Commission, the nation's consumer protection agency, collects complaints about companies, business practices, and identity theft.

Why: Your complaints can help us detect patterns of wrong-doing, and lead to investigations and prosecutions. The FTC enters all complaints it receives into Consumer Sentinel, a secure online database that is used by thousands of civil and criminal law enforcement authorities worldwide. The FTC does not resolve individual consumer complaints.

3. One can file a complaint with one's State Attorney General's Bureau of Consumer Protection for online purchases, or that of the state where the transaction occurred. Links to the websites of all State Attorneys General can be located here: http://www.naag.org/current-attorneys-general.php

If you are wrong about the quality or veracity of your evidence, you put Mr. Price in a position where he can mount a definitive defense.

As it stands, his reputation is sullied and he cannot defend himself from the claims against him.

Hardly.

If anyone has made a false accusation against him, Mr Price can seek redress on his own in the courts by bringing an action against them for defamation. However, truth is an absolute defense to a claim of defamation.

Give him his day in court or recant your accusations.

He can seek his own day in court! I have the right to speak the truth anywhere and I am not his nanny.


Lady Charlotte

[Greg Mele]

All,

I think everyone has the right to defend or comment on their experiences with Brian, and by the same token I feel I have a right to post this - as it speaks yet again to Brian's claims.

As you all read, Brian just claimed to be all but starving on a $17.5K/year teaching assistantship, and the many, many financial concerns that have made it all but impossible for him to pay royalties to CB authors for years - despite CB titles dominating the current Top Ten list at http://www.Revival.us.

And yet, yesterday afternoon, I received an email from my friend Jiří Klepač, whom many here will know. I am reposting it here with his knowledge and agreement:

____________________________________
From: Jiří Klepač <jiri>
To: Gregory Mele <gregmele>
Sent: Mon, February 21, 2011 3:46:47 PM
Subject: Re: Hello!


Hi Gregory,

I hope you are having a good time!

I would like to ask you a favour, if possible. Do you know Brian Price Personally, please? He ordered a ful suit from me, we discussed details, he even sent me the body casts, but then he stopped answering my email - now it is for more than a month. I tried to contact him also at http://revival.us/contact-us.aspx but with no success. I really don't understand it as he was very keen to have the armour made and waited more or less a year. Would it be possible for you to call the office and ask them if Brian could contact me? I could of course call myself, but my spoken English might be a problem.

I don't know how phone fees work in the US, but if the inter-state calls are expensive, I am happy to include it as a deposit for your next piece or paypall it to you.

If Brian changed his mind about the armour, not a problem for me, I have quite a lot other work, but I would like to be sure, that it was not some technical trouble that stopped the conversation.
Thank you in advance

all the best
Jiri
__________________

Now, besides yet more communication snafus, I want you to all think about what this means. Whether Brian has hit a current financial snag and is avoiding Jiri or not is speculation. What is not is that at the same time that he was not paying his authors he was commissioning a full suit of armour! I am not at liberty to state how much that was for, but regular posters here can make an educated guess.

Jiri has told me that it was not only OK to post this, but that he was willing to confirm this himself.

I understand people saying that they have never had a problem with Brian, but what level of business have you conducted? Are you just good friends, have you made a few purchases from CB, a single armour commission, or did you have extensive business relations? Because the larger the scope, the worse it seems to get, unilaterally. *That* is why Menken, Talbot, Christian and I have very specific stories to tell here.

Again, Mr Price can claim poor and present his chronicle of events. But we have the right to post ours. We are doing so solely with facts that can verified by multiple parties, and many of them Brian has admitted to. And the picture is that of a man who does not honor debts except when he chooses to do so, yet seems to have no difficulty living in a large house, driving a luxury car, collecting antique books and expensive replica armour, all while going to grad school. No one is resenting his living well; we are taking exception with a sense of entitlement that allows him to do so without paying his debts.

The documentable truth is not defamation - accusing this of being nothing more than business competition, and dragging people who were never even in this discussion into it, is.

Best wishes,

Greg
[/i]

[Kilkenny]

I shall have to throw you into that class of people who sit around waiting for the opportunity to throw their little stones, without regard to their targets.

As I have stated in one of the various threads on this subject, I have had dealing with him and found him less than honorable, admittedly my experience (lying repeatedly about shipping an item, and finally shipping it when he got sick of me harassing him about it) is one of his lesser missdeeds, but I'm not just joining ion on the thread to "throw stones"

Consider whether or not you would want someone to stand up for you

Were I in his shoes with a trail of misdeeds that extends for decades, I would not expect anyone to be willing to stand up for me or vouch for my character, and even less would I expect someone to state they respected me.

Admittedly its not just the sca but to me it seems more prevalent here than elsewhere, theres always someone willing to step forward and excuse the actions of a wayward armorer who made off with peoples money, or some other miscreant.

It may be difficult to accept, but there are very few people, no matter how dastardly, who have actually screwed over every single person they've been in contact with.

You've got a beef with Brian - ok, it's unfortunate and you can stand over there with the group of people who also have beefs with Brian... it seems to be a disturbingly large group.

You do not have a beef with Brandr, so why did you attack him?

You have had a problem(s) with Brian. Brandr has not. That he says so in no way harms you - yet your response was an attack.

So far, if you read what is written, I have seen not one defense or excuse for Brian but from his own mouth.

Stating that I have not personally had problems is not defending him, but reporting a data point that differs from the majority being reported.

But of course, when people are swift to attack for merely reporting a different experience, the odds of anyone stepping up in actual defense decrease proportionately.

[Greg Mele]

To be clear, I agree with Gavin - there is nothing wrong with people saying that they have had good experiences with Brian, all I ask is what the context is, for the reasons that I explained. That way the renown mechanism works as it was meant to, and ironically, as Brian liked to write about.

[Lady Charlotte]

Hello, Dietrich,

Christian, I have been recommending your Fighting with the German Longsword, to many beginning and intermediate SCA greatsword fighters.

This information you have brought for was entirely unknown to me, and I will have to reconsider how I handle this. On the one hand, I find your book valuable and useful to those who want to learn the longsword/greatsword.

In case it would help any would-be readers, copies of Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship : Sigmund Ringeck's Commentaries on Johannes Liechtenauer's Verse and Fighting with the German Longsword can be found at a number of libraries via WorldCat by clicking on the links I've embedded in their titles.

Lady Charlotte

[Dietrich von Stroheim]

Thank you Lady Charlotte. That is indeed of help. Although the nearest copy is about 400 miles away from me, I've provided advice and resources to a lot of people on the internet re: SCA greatsword fighting, and I will use the link you provided me, as future inquirers may have a copy a wee bit closer to them.

And I can just lend mine to anyone local who wants it...so far I've been fortunate enough to see my copy return every time I've loaned it.

What a mess this whole situation is, but it sounds like the injured parties know what they are doing.

[Lady Charlotte]

Hello, Mr. Price,

We don't know each other and I've never purchased anything from you, so I have no personal axe to grind here. But when someone in academia commits the cardinal sin of plagiarism, they draw intense scrutiny from me. Have you ever drawn intense scrutiny from a research librarian before?

Just wondering! Let's continue on down your seemingly endless rabbit hole, shall we?

1) On the whole, I have *lost* money on the bookshelf, not "lined my pockets" with it. The project stated with a $50k investment by my wife, Ann, and over the years we fed it another $110k, rather than taking money out. I also gave up a very lucrative technology post in order to give it a shot. This state of affairs is what really drove the development of the second business, Revival.us. From the start, it was clear that the Revival business was rapidly overtaking CB, and in order to feed my family, the Revival business was the one that we continued to develop.

2) We paid royalties until late 2006, when the cash-flow for CB came sharply down. The biggest factor in the dramatic reduction in available funds came with my huge investment in Christian Tobler's In Service of the Duke. While beautiful and a masterpiece my Christian, this single project ran over-budget and came in at just short of $50k. To date, we have sold just $21k in sales for it. I had assumed, wrongly, that the book's costs would be recouped in a year, but that assessment was wrong. Unfortunately, a $30k hit in a struggling business is more than significant, it is catastrophic.

3) At the same time, also in 2006, the French magazine which we distributed, Medieval History Magazine, abruptly and without warning went out of business, leaving us holding about $20k in subscription commitments for a magazine which was now unavailable. At this was a French company who went bankrupt (they had a very fine line of magazines), we had no recourse. We did, however, either refund or give 100% purchase gift certificates. Technically this debt belonged to Harnois, as all of the funds had been sent to them, but we did not want to leave all of these customers holding the bag, so we made up the difference. It was expensive, but it needed to be done and was the right thing to do. Unfortunately, it came right as In Service of the Duke was going through production.

4) We lost our European distributor in 2006, as the founder of the Greenhill Books, Lionel Leventhal, was replaced by his son. With that transition their business reshuffled, and payments sent to us fell to a very small trickle. A subsequent distributor has sold even less and, in both cases, substantial stocks of books were lost.

After reading your sad, indeed, positively piteous tale of 2006 and the alleged financial decline of Chivalry Bookshelf, I visited your website, "Chivalry Bookshelf/Revival Enterprises" where, to my surprise, I saw that five of your 10 "Top Products" as of today are books (including Christian Tobler's Fighting with the German Longsword) and the Agilitas DVD:

1. 14th century shoes
2. Light Sparring Gloves
3. Swordsman's Companion
4. DVD -Ochs Liechtenauer Longsword I
5. Fighting with the German Longsword
6. Arte of Defence
7. Swordsman's Gloves
8. Kevlar - reinforced Light Sparring Gloves
9. Talhoffer 1467 Rubber Hammer Head
10. SPADA: An Anthology of Swordsmanship...

Naturally, I wondered what your "Top Products" were by the end of 2006, so I took a trip down memory lane with the Wayback Machine. Imagine my surprise to read on the 12-31-2006 snapshot of your homepage that:

"Merry Christmas! We have had a record year, and we very much appreciate the business!

Hmmm....

I also noticed that your 10 Top Products as of the end of 2006 were

1.) Swordsman's Companion
2.) 14th century shoes
3.) Light Sparring Gloves
4.) Medieval History Magazine
5.) Arte of Defence
6.) Fighting with the German Longsword
7.) SPADA: An Anthology of Swordsmanship...
8.) Swordsman's Gloves
9.) DVD -Ochs Liechtenauer Longsword I
10.) Medieval Sword and Shield

I then wondered what percentage of your "Top Products" consisted of Chivalry Bookshelf books and DVDs in 2007, so I looked at the Wayback Machine's snaphot for 2-14-2007:

1. Swordsman's Companion
2. 14th century shoes
3. Light Sparring Gloves
4. Medieval History Magazine
5. Arte of Defence
6. Fighting with the German Longsword
7. SPADA: An Anthology of Swordsmanship...
8. DVD -Ochs Liechtenauer Longsword I
9. Swordsman's Gloves
10. Medieval Sword and Shield

Again, six of the 10 were Chivalry Bookshelf books and DVDs and. curiously, Medieval History Magazine was another. Should I note here that Christian Tobeler's Fighting with the German Longsword seems to fall pretty steadily at #5 or #6 among your "Top Products"?

And this is true for 3-04-2007:

1. Swordsman's Companion
2. 14th century shoes
3. Light Sparring Gloves
4. Medieval History Magazine
5. Arte of Defence
6. Fighting with the German Longsword
7. SPADA: An Anthology of Swordsmanship...
8. DVD -Ochs Liechtenauer Longsword I
9. Swordsman's Gloves
10. Medieval Sword and Shield

For 6-08-2007:

1. Swordsman's Companion
2. 14th century shoes
3. Light Sparring Gloves
4. Arte of Defence
5. Medieval History Magazine
6. Fighting with the German Longsword
7. DVD -Ochs Liechtenauer Longsword I
8. Swordsman's Gloves
9. SPADA: An Anthology of Swordsmanship...
10. Medieval Sword and Shield

For 7-04-2007:

1. 14th century shoes
2. Swordsman's Companion
3. Light Sparring Gloves
4. Arte of Defence
5. Medieval History Magazine
6. Fighting with the German Longsword
7. DVD -Ochs Liechtenauer Longsword I
8. Swordsman's Gloves
9. SPADA: An Anthology of Swordsmanship...
10. Medieval Sword and Shield

For 8-09-2007:

1. 14th century shoes
2. Light Sparring Gloves
3. Swordsman's Companion
4. Arte of Defence
5. Fighting with the German Longsword
6. Medieval History Magazine
7. DVD -Ochs Liechtenauer Longsword I
8. Swordsman's Gloves
9. SPADA: An Anthology of Swordsmanship...
10. Medieval Sword and Shield

For 10-11-2007:

1. 14th century shoes
2. Light Sparring Gloves
3. Swordsman's Companion
4. Arte of Defence
5. Fighting with the German Longsword
6. DVD -Ochs Liechtenauer Longsword I
7. Swordsman's Gloves
8. SPADA: An Anthology of Swordsmanship...
9. Medieval Sword and Shield
10. CB EXCLUSIVE! Paulus Kal Facsimile limited numbered edition

And for 12-15-2007:

1. 14th century shoes
2. Light Sparring Gloves
3. Swordsman's Companion
4. Arte of Defence
5. DVD -Ochs Liechtenauer Longsword I
6. Fighting with the German Longsword
7. Swordsman's Gloves
8. SPADA: An Anthology of Swordsmanship...
9. Medieval Sword and Shield
10. CB EXCLUSIVE! Paulus Kal Facsimile limited numbered edition

Let's note that seven of the 10 Top Products listed, above, were for Chivalry Bookshelf books or DVDs.

In fact, every date I checked indicated that at least half of your "10 Top Products" typically were Chivalry Bookshelf books or DVDs, such as 2-17-2009, when you'd announced, "Back in print: Secrets of German Medieval Swordsmanship!":

1. 14th century shoes
2. Light Sparring Gloves
3. Swordsman's Companion
4. DVD -Ochs Liechtenauer Longsword I
5. Fighting with the German Longsword
6. Arte of Defence
7. Swordsman's Gloves
8. SPADA: An Anthology of Swordsmanship...
9. Kevlar - reinforced Light Sparring Gloves
10. Talhoffer 1467 Rubber Hammer Head

But not a penny, still, in back royalties for Christian Tobler, eh?

I also noted, as others here may, now, too, that despite your claim, above, regarding Stephen Hand's books:

...SPADA and Medieval Sword and Shield sell better, or did, but have also lost their market momentum. There is little on the balance sheet there, either...

both those volumes showed up consistently on your "10 Top Products" list throughout 2007 and SPADA was still appearing on that list in 2009 and even did today!

Hmmm...

So then I began to wonder a bit about your businesses generally, especially after the claims you'd made, above, about Revival Clothing supposedly having been part of "Revival Enterprises" and your attempted characterization of Chivalry Bookshelf as a separate entity. I decided to check out whether CB was a dba name or a separate corporation entirely, so I registered with the Texas Secretary of State's OnLine Access service to corporate and business filings (SOSDirect), which one can do "as a temporary user" by providing a valid credit card number -- searches cost only $1.00 each.

Given that your "Contact Us" page gave your business's name as "Revival Enterprises, Ltd.," I first searched for that name, then, when the results were "none," I searched just for "Revival Enterprises." Only three entities were pulled up having the words "Revival Enterprises" in their names, as shown, below, in the attached screenshot "Revival Enterprises search results."

Even if "Revival Enterprises, Ltd." were incorporated in another state, it would still have to be registered as "foreign corporation" in Texas in order for you to be doing business there legally, but it's not.

I checked to see whether "Chivalry Bookshelf" was either incorporated in Texas, registered as a foreign corporation or just as a "doing business as name: no, no and no.

So then I ran a search under your personal name and the only results were for your martial arts school, Schola Saint George, Ltd., Inc., and WHAT A RESULT!!! (attached screenshot, below, as "Price, Brian search results")

Yes, "Forfeited existence." A screenshot of the State's Forfeiture Filing is also attached below (these are all public filings available to the general public, not private in any way).

You can probably guess where I headed next: http://www.scholasaintgeorge.org/, then to the "About Us" page, where I learned that "The Schola Saint George is a non-profit school of "chivalric" martial arts dedicated to promoting study of historical fighting systems through research, training, and competition" and, on a page titled "SSG, Inc":

The SSG is incorporated in the State of Texas and has applied for our 401(c)-3 non-profit status.

It states at the bottom of that page, "Last Updated on Monday, 01 February 2010 10:53," although the corporate charter had been forfeited on August 7, 2009!

Apart from totally misleading the reader, whose pocket are the membership fees going into if the corporation no longer exists? Do your members and instructors know about this?

The Membership Page also claims,

Your membership supports the continued development of the community site and our insurance.

But if the corporation no longer exists, who's covered by an insurance policy? How could a school insurance policy effectively cover either your members or the other instructors if the school no longer exists legally?

Yet another mystery wrapped inside an conundrum, it appears!


Lady Charlotte

[Aaron]

Brian,

If you want to reverse your fortunes, write a book about what's going on. This is a mystery wrapped in a mystery with money, knights, international intrique and Texas sized houses all wrapped up into one tight mystery.

I'm interested now.

-Aaron

[Russ Mitchell]

BEST. THREAD. EVA!!!!

No; it sucks. But a lot of us have been holding our tongues for years out of common courtesy -- or because it takes you that long to realize that a pleasant guy you'd really like to respect just like you would anybody else has really chosen to screw you that hard -- and at some point, for the sake of the public interest, the dam has to burst.

It's a crying damned shame, is what it is.

[chris19d]

I shall have to throw you into that class of people who sit around waiting for the opportunity to throw their little stones, without regard to their targets.

As I have stated in one of the various threads on this subject, I have had dealing with him and found him less than honorable, admittedly my experience (lying repeatedly about shipping an item, and finally shipping it when he got sick of me harassing him about it) is one of his lesser missdeeds, but I'm not just joining ion on the thread to "throw stones"

Consider whether or not you would want someone to stand up for you

Were I in his shoes with a trail of misdeeds that extends for decades, I would not expect anyone to be willing to stand up for me or vouch for my character, and even less would I expect someone to state they respected me.

Admittedly its not just the sca but to me it seems more prevalent here than elsewhere, theres always someone willing to step forward and excuse the actions of a wayward armorer who made off with peoples money, or some other miscreant.

It may be difficult to accept, but there are very few people, no matter how dastardly, who have actually screwed over every single person they've been in contact with.

You've got a beef with Brian - ok, it's unfortunate and you can stand over there with the group of people who also have beefs with Brian... it seems to be a disturbingly large group.

You do not have a beef with Brandr, so why did you attack him?

You have had a problem(s) with Brian. Brandr has not. That he says so in no way harms you - yet your response was an attack.

So far, if you read what is written, I have seen not one defense or excuse for Brian but from his own mouth.

Stating that I have not personally had problems is not defending him, but reporting a data point that differs from the majority being reported.

But of course, when people are swift to attack for merely reporting a different experience, the odds of anyone stepping up in actual defense decrease proportionately.

Your right, In hindsight the I was wrong, the comment was ill conceived and unnecessary, my apologies to you and Brandr.

[Dave Smith]

I don't spend a great deal of time on this forum, but when I am here I find it to be a treasure trove of information. I certainly appreciate the work everyone running this forum and contributing to it put forth.

I was directed to this thread from another forum, and I'm quite surprised by what I found. Like Mr. Willis, I can say that my dealings with Brian have been nothing short of pleasurable. Admittedly, it's not on the same scope as some of the other dealings mentioned here, so I feel no need to become deeply involved in the conversation of business ethics centered around Brian.

What I will comment on is the overall taste this thread leaves in my mouth. From an outsider looking in, there does seem to be something of an "angry mob" mentality going on here. I have noticed that the fire is largely being fed by the same people over and over again, but that's beside the point. In my opinion, and maybe mine alone (which is fine), this is not the place to air dirty laundry. If you have a problem with Mr. Price (especially one of this scope), seek redress elsewhere.

Mr. Tobler: Regardless of your noble intentions for speaking up on internet forums, it simply does not seem particularly "chivalric" (since that seems to be the word of the day). I've always held you in some esteem Mr. Tobler, and what goes on between Mr. Price and yourself doesn't interest me a great deal, but this whole public posting business seems like it should be beneath you.

To put things plainly, I don't much care what has gone on, or is going on. It will all come out in the wash, just as these things always do. I can say that as a casual visitor to these forums I am aghast at the hateful manner with which these posts are being written. I may be completely ignorant to the details of what has gone on between Mr. Price and many of the people posting on this thread, but I will say this one last time: There is a place for issues like this to be decided, and a public forum is not one of them.

Based on what I've read so far, I wouldn't be particularly surprised with many of the responses which people might toss my way after this post. I'll happily continue to drop by this forum for useful and enjoyable information from time to time. Unfortunately, a great deal of "negative renown" is now attached to many people I had previously held in high regard simply for the manner/s in which they've purported themselves here. Say what you like, I highly doubt I'll be checking this thread again.

[Thorsteinn Raudskeggr]

Has anyone shared this thread with the AEMMA or HEMA Alliance folks? I know it's on myArmoury and a few others but shouldn't they know? THe Schola Saint George folks I mean.

[LeeC]

I thought somewhat in the same vein when the issues with Thornbird Armory occured Mr. Smith.

That was around 1990.

20 years.

In that time I convinced myself that things had been basically made right.
In large part due to what seemed to be the endorsement from people like Mr. Tobler and Mr. Mele. I have recommended CB books often even telling people to go directly to Revival.US so that the authors would get a more direct portion of the profits. I know that Revival.US has gotten several thousand dollars worth of business on my endorsement for their reputation.

I for one am very thankful for this insight that they have given us after many years of what I see as incredible restraint.

[Christian H. Tobler]

Mr. Tobler: Regardless of your noble intentions for speaking up on internet forums, it simply does not seem particularly "chivalric" (since that seems to be the word of the day). I've always held you in some esteem Mr. Tobler, and what goes on between Mr. Price and yourself doesn't interest me a great deal, but this whole public posting business seems like it should be beneath you.

No Mr. Smith: what wouldn't be chivalric is allowing a malicious business to move forward, continuing to prey upon unsuspecting future victims. Caveat emptor is only meaningful when the buyer truly is aware. A prime chivalric duty is the defense of the innocent.

I find it suspect that you claim these matters are of little interest to you, yet you feel the need to post about them: your *first* post on this forum. You apparently have a great deal of interest indeed.

If you find the behaviors identified here by more than a dozen posters acceptable, if you find their discussion the mere airing of 'dirty laundry', then I believe I'll bear your disappointment in me quite well.

Regards,

Christian

[Gerhard von Liebau]

BEST. THREAD. EVA!!!!

No; it sucks.

I truly hope you didn't miss the sarcasm and irony in my statement... This couldn't possibly be the best thread ever. In fact, if there was one thread I can remember on the Archive that I'd like to go away (along with its reasons) it would definitely be this one... As they say, what comes around, goes around. Eventually someone is going to pin Brian Price and make him wish he'd not done a lot of things he has got away with. It's a shame from every angle.

-Gerhard

[Leo Medii]

I was just hoping for some info on an order I gave him a deposit on of 25% in 1994. I did not realize that this was rude, or in bad form. I only asked because Brain had come here to post.

[Christian H. Tobler]

It's a shame from every angle.

Alas, this is so, Gerhard.

Best regards,

Christian

[Louis de Leon]

Dave,

I can understand how things could look that way to you. I don't have a dog in this fight either, I haven't posted to this thread yet, so you know that anything I write will be without any passion with regards to Mr. Price and his business. I am not a merchant. I am not a customer. I'm an AA member who has read the same thread you have and that is all.

My take on this is exactly the opposite of yours. I think this entire thread is simply grand. I'll explain why later. But first allow me to address a few of your concerns.

I have noticed that the fire is largely being fed by the same people over and over again, but that's beside the point.

But have you noticed how this thread has now reached the status of a confessional? "I've been quiet for years about this too, but now that you mention it..." It started off with one complaint. Then two. Then three. Now it's a mob. How do you suppose that happened? And why are all the stories so similar?

In my opinion, and maybe mine alone (which is fine), this is not the place to air dirty laundry.

I disagree most strongly. Ours is a community and a small one. All it takes is one sour experience to drive a newbie away. I found the AA initially because I wished to start fighting SCA and was shopping for armour. Plenty of other people find this site the same way. By allowing someone who takes money and doesn't provide product to exist here, we're harming our community. Every failed transaction (from any merchant!) is to be avoided. Every failure lessens us as a community.

If you have a problem with Mr. Price (especially one of this scope), seek redress elsewhere.

It has been my experience on the AA that occasionally the ONLY way you can get some people to respond is a gigantic public shaming. Please note that Mr. Tobler said that this post was the only thing that has managed to get Mr. Price to respond since 2007. If this is what it takes, then this is what it takes. Other lesser efforts produced no results.

Mr. Tobler: Regardless of your noble intentions for speaking up on internet forums, it simply does not seem particularly "chivalric" (since that seems to be the word of the day). I've always held you in some esteem Mr. Tobler, and what goes on between Mr. Price and yourself doesn't interest me a great deal, but this whole public posting business seems like it should be beneath you.

I disagree here as well. I think that it is most knightly to stand up to a grave injustice. And to warn others as well. Hiding from a problem simply because it would be socially inconvenient is (in my opinion, of course) not knightly. It can be difficult. Google the phrase "Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?" for further details. You have to keep these things in context. We are actually trying to recreate ancient chivalry here. What you are witnessing is correct. Con men get run out of town covered in tar and feathers - and that's if they are lucky.

And consider the other side of that. The modern side. If all of the stories in this thread are true, how much money would Mr. Price have bilked people out of over the years? Does that not stand for anything? Should a criminal (actually multiple counts of felony grand theft and mail fraud if this thread is accurate) be allowed to prosper? How about the victim who knows he will do it again? Should he be quiet and allow the next guy to be taken?

Absolutely not.

It will all come out in the wash, just as these things always do.

This single sentence is why I am writing this post to you.

This is how predators function. They count on their victims to think exactly this. That is what allows them to move with impunity to their next victim.

And that single reason is why this thread fills me with joy. It is a huge pleasure to see a house cleaning. I am filled with admiration for those who have spoken up here, told a painful truth at personal cost to do the right thing and warn others so that they are not victimized in turn. This is difficult to do. Go read Sir Vitus' thread "The Confessional" if you want to fully understand the mindset. The only way ugly things are destroyed fully is to shine a gigantic floodlight on them, paint a huge day glow X over them, and have everyone stare at it for a half an hour. That is the purpose of this thread, and again, it fills me with great joy.

Some interesting reading also, btw:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopath#Characteristics

Just read that single paragraph. Then go back and re-read this thread. If you place this thread in that context, perhaps you'll feel better about what is going on here. I know I do. I've known two people like this personally and seeing one finally meet some actual justice is a great and a heartwarming thing.

[Marco-borromei]

I'm shocked. I answer a book recommendation request, forget to check back for a week, and find THIS?

I'm grateful to everyone here who's provided information, including Brian Price for showing what I hope continues to be willingness to settle these matters publicly.

I have nothing to add to the issues of royalties, contracts, plagerism, theft, chivalry, etc.

I have one point that concerns me, personally, and perhaps some of you, which I don't think has come up yet.

In Feb 2009 I and 10 others joined together to start a local study group under the Schola Saint George. I'll be honest, the main reason I pushed for the SSG instead of other established groups was the insurance. I'm paranoid about insurance issues. I've seen first hand what can happen when an injury impacts someone's ability to work or runs up high bills and the company benefits or homeowners insurance lawyers get to looking for someone to blame.

All but one of us bought SSG memberships. We started scheduling community rooms at local libraries for our practices. In at least one case, a library official asked me if we were insured? Yes, of course.

Our group was active weekly until August 2010.

Now it seems that the Schola Saint Goerge was no longer a legaly existing corporation back in August, 2009. Was the insurance still in effect? What happened to the dues we paid again in Feb-April 2010 to renew memberships/insurance?

Luckily, we never had an injury. As folks drifted off, I assume memberships are not being renewed. I had decided months ago not to renew mine.

Learn from my mistakes:
1. I never asked for any paperwork to prove the insurance actually existed.
2. I never asked for claim forms or even what the claims process would be.
3. I asked others to pay for this insurance without properly scrutinizing it.

If we HAD an injury, what on earth would I have done? Even if the insurance did/does exist, I was running a group with no idea how it worked. In the current golden age of litigation, that was foolish.

I feel worse about that than about all the referral business I sent to revival/cb/Price. While there's a small chance that this is all a mistake and will be rectified, redeeming the business end by paying the authors and other admitted debts, there's nothing that will change my past carelessness.

Check your insurance. Ask for proof, learn how it works. When in doubt, demand paperwork.

Its getting harder and harder to just trust people every day.

I hope all of this gets settled justly and publicly so that we can start trusting good people again and know who the bad ones are beyond any doubt.

[Signo]

I think everyone did the right think, if there is something to blame, is the long time this situation has been around unspoken. Probably in all those years I've just bought 1 or 2 books from mr. Price, and I had been always grateful to him for TOMAR, but all considered I feel now sad for the money I gave him.
But I understand the reasons behind this delay, I had the same experience with someone I knew that ran a business in the reenactment field, everytime something "strange" happened, there were so many people telling so many contrastating things that it was impossible to discriminate truth from lies.
Today it's very different, and things appear cristal clear, I hope you all will spread the word and boycott his business worldwide.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

Dave-
Bullshit.
-Vitus

[Skutai]

There is a place for issues like this to be decided, and a public forum is not one of them.

I could agree if it related to interactions between individuals on a personal level, but this is the free market. The experiences of other actors within the system allows us to make an educated decision on who we want to conduct business with. There is no guarantee that this information will be used wisely, or that the growing consensus is completely accurate, but the free flow of information is critical to the correct operation of the market. It is up to us to decide to reject the information, or how to use it.

[Marv]

Mr. Tobler: Regardless of your noble intentions for speaking up on internet forums, it simply does not seem particularly "chivalric" (since that seems to be the word of the day). I've always held you in some esteem Mr. Tobler, and what goes on between Mr. Price and yourself doesn't interest me a great deal, but this whole public posting business seems like it should be beneath you.

No Mr. Smith: what wouldn't be chivalric is allowing a malicious business to move forward, continuing to prey upon unsuspecting future victims. Caveat emptor is only meaningful when the buyer truly is aware. A prime chivalric duty is the defense of the innocent.

I find it suspect that you claim these matters are of little interest to you, yet you feel the need to post about them: your *first* post on this forum. You apparently have a great deal of interest indeed.

If you find the behaviors identified here by more than a dozen posters acceptable, if you find their discussion the mere airing of 'dirty laundry', then I believe I'll bear your disappointment in me quite well.

Regards,

Christian

What I don't understand is if this person was so bad, why did it take this many years to report it to the community? If it is true what everyone is saying hasn't the silence (for this long a time) served to aid and abeit this wrong doing to others?

[Christian H. Tobler]

Hi Marv,

You are, to a great extent, right. And this is why I've said that I bear some responsibility for having let this go on this long.

I haven't kept entirely quiet though - there are a number of folks who I've discussed this with since 2007. But this is the first time I've spoken 'in public'.

I'd felt that my complaints might have been dismissed, as Brian has tried here to dismiss them, as a competitor trying to undermine another business. Now, it is impossible for him to do that credibly, for there are too many stories to put together.

It was really the incident that Menken recounted that was a watershed event for me, for it showed me that this wasn't simply the case of Brian being an incompetent publisher. It showed an active malice at work. I was involved in that incident, as a couple of the vendors at Pennsic asked me to reason with Brian, as we were still friends at the time. His intractability, even in the face of being greviously in the wrong, changed things in my mind forever.

Nevertheless, there is truth in what you say. Had I spoken publicly earlier, I might've have spared some folks some heartache. For this delay, I apologize, but at the same time it also hardens my resolve in seeing these ill deeds now exposed.

Yours,

Christian

[Ben Floyd]

I PM'ed Mark this, but I figured others may benefit if they are in a similar situation.

"If you need a reputable organization to get insurance though, go to HEMAAlliance.com. I usually just lurk here, but registered just to tell you this. It's actually quite a large group that encompases many fencing schools to one extent or another. The insurance terms are reasonable for what and how they offer it. "