New helm!

[Eltz-Kempenich]

Hey guys! I just recently finished this new helm for combat use. Well, OK, it still needs the grill, but the helm proper is done and I wanted to share. It is the second helm and fourth project I have done. Its stainless (which I now hate), 14 gauge top, 16 gauge sides. The grill will be hinged.

I realized that the photos were not taken at square angles so the symmetry appears off. It isn't perfect anyway, but take it into account when observing.

The first pic was taken at work tonight after I finished the aventail and attached it temporarily. The liner is too small, taken from my other helm just to try it on. But I'm excited about it and didn't want to wait until it is completed to share. Besides, it defeats the purpose to ask for advice when the helm is already done. So fire away! Thanks!

[Erin]

i think it looks really cool. good job man. might i suggest an interchangable visor so you can attach diferant faces? weather it be klaps, or pig faced, or bar grill?

just a thought.

-erin

[schreiber]

You got a really sweet, subtle flare going on there. Nice.
When you do a bargrill, make sure that it's diesel. The 16g sides would worry me a bit, but the flaring sides of the helm mean that the bargrill is probably going to take most of the punishment.
Really well done!

[Vigmund Gunnarson]

Its stainless (which I now hate), 14 gauge top, 16 gauge sides.

I so feel with you... my first helmets for SCA use were stainless as well (I accidentally got sold stainless instead of mild and as I had no experience I wouldn´t figure until cutting went awfully hard and dishing was a b*+$§)

For a second helmet that is some really outstanding work. It has great lines and symmetry actually isn´t that off. Well it is, you´re right but not significantly I´ve seen helmets on the field that were a lot worse in a more obvious way.
So really I have to say: good work, keep it up and please us with more of your work

Greetings Vigmund

[Eltz-Kempenich]

Thanks guys! My first bascinet is the one that is getting the Klappvisor, actually (16 gauge mild, made as a learning project/garb piece). As this helm here is for combat, I have no interest in having full visors (nor making one in stainless to match!). Makes it hard to breathe and you can't see enough anyway IMO. So Master Cadwallon and I have been working on a Klappvisor for my show helm, as well as a form to knock out the occularia with less work. However, since the grill will be hinged, I could eventually do a nice visor if I felt so inclined. I'll post pics with this one and my klappvisored helm are done.

As for the symmetry... you could spend weeks trying to tweak it and perfect it and getting rid of every little bump. That's a rut I don't want to get into; I'd never get anything done if I nitpicked every little thing. Period armour was seldom perfect anyway. It had a function to serve which subtle aesthetics play little into. That, and this helm is made for combat and its going to get the crap beat out of it. I didn't want to spend a ton of time making something I am too afraid of damaging because of the time and effort I put into it, cuz knowing myself, I'd hate to ruin something I was seriously proud of. I'm proud of this one, to be sure, but I made it for a purpose that a perfectionist attitude won't serve. It looks great from 5 feet away and that's all I wanted from this project. I'm growing tired of using loaner gear...

[Chretien le Meunier]

Very well executed, especially with just a few projects under your belt.

I agree with the barwork comment, make it stout, but should'nt be to difficult with the proper bar size and good welding. And, yep, after the barwork, a klap on that thing would be sweet.

Good job.

[Alec]

Well done. Nice lines. I like the slight flair along the bottom. It has the feel of that group of late 14C German bascinets.

[Tomburr]

Looking good. The pieces are very nicely blended in profile. The asymetry just adds a more period look, IMO. Slightly off-kilter, just like many museum pieces.

I'm with you on the bar grille. I really admire the 14th C. mafia and the cap-a-pie men/women who fight in full visored helms. I couldn't see, breathe or fight worth a crap in one of those. You should make one in the future though, at least for garb.

Keep us updated.

[Konstantin the Red]

Very sweetly done there, E-K. Congratulations! You sought a period silhouette and you achieved it. Even the 16 gauge will hold up, being stainless and being hammer worked, both of which will stiffen the metal.

Was that a first time camail too? Personally I prefer building camails by the expansion method nowadays, though my first camail was a polygonal array like that one. I'd recommend putting some more vervelle holes in, running up the sides of the facial opening to hold your camail's temple triangles up. Will you be using post vervelles or tunnel vervelles? Tunnel vervelles are almost invariably fewer in number and more widely spaced than post vervelles which came later in the century.

[Halberds]

Yes a very nice helm.
I like it... Good fit form and finish.
Jolly well done.

Hal

[Eltz-Kempenich]

Thanks again guys!

The aventail is actually about 20 years old and was on somebody's helm ages ago, but no one remembers who exactly. When it was given to me it was in shambles but workable. I repaired it and threw it on there (after sewing it to the leather bit). I'll be going back later to make it symmetric. But no, it is something like my 6th mail project, so I hear what you're saying. I like the expansion method too, but since this was handed to me premade, I didn't wanna tear it apart to rework it. In the future I may replace it with something of that style.

As for vervelles, there are 14 on there now. I'm using cotter pins for now and will replace them with nicer post vervelles before the spring fighting season. Windrose has them, IIRC. Although in retrospect, I see how the aventail was attached on the Black Prince's helm and I would have done it like that had I done a bit of research. As it was, I just copied how His Grace Frederick de Fulbert did it. I'll consider adding more vervelles though, thanks for the tip. Does anyone make nice tunnel vervelles?

And thanks Alec, late 14th C German is exactly what I was after. And to you as well, Hal; praise from such a skilled helm-maker as yourself is high praise indeed.

[Konstantin the Red]

Does anyone make nice tunnel vervelles?

If you can braze or weld, you can construct nice shank-footed tunnel vervelles that way and pein them in. Easy to replace if they get damaged beyond use.

Or you can use the same overall principle as the cotter pins, which look more like post vervelles most of the time anyway: a rectangle of sheet metal, formed around a mandrel for its curvature, with two tabs or stringers (1/2" minimum) of metal protruding from the two edges. Edge on, the whole piece is in a U section. Put these tabs into the vervelle holes and spread them out on the inside of the hat, exactly as you would with cotter pins' legs. Square the hole if you really want to, but a round hole allows free turning to follow what the retaining wire or cord does.

Further forming of the metal oblong in the middle part of these would yield a pent-roof configuration, as seen on some eastern European tunnel vervelles. It's bling, and your tastes may vary.

Although in retrospect, I see how the aventail was attached on the Black Prince's helm and I would have done it like that had I done a bit of research.

Looks like he had a bascinet with a face opening that flared out towards the bottom edge, sloping back a bit, and his camail strap hugged the edge of the helmet, perhaps set in just a little -- a quarter to a half an inch, maybe. 30-odd post vervelles about an inch apart, at an estimate; somebody else may have a better one. I just looked at the pic in AAOTMK.

[Eltz-Kempenich]

My thoughts on the BP's helm was that the aventail appears to be attached farther back from the edge. Rather than being cut in that shape that is visible in his effigy, I assumed the helm is actally full in shape like mine here, and that the aventail is simply attached differently. I may be mistaken on this. In this case, though, more of the helm is covered by the mail which serves to give the aventail more support and shape.

The tunnel vervelles sound like a bitch to make. More trouble than the 2 bucks a pop from Windrose, I think. If someone sells them, though, I might be convinced... But does anyone have any pics of tunnel vervelles they've made?

[Eltz-Kempenich]

Another question - What constitutes a sturdy grill? I was going to use 1/4" round stock and weld it up in the typical fashion. Is something else more desirable?

[Chretien le Meunier]

Another question - What constitutes a sturdy grill? I was going to use 1/4" round stock and weld it up in the typical fashion. Is something else more desirable?

.250 SS bar should be fine, I think going up to the next commercialy available size, such as .3125 (5/16th) would be a bit of an overkill, and while an odd ball in between size can be purchased, it costs more, because of well, the odd-ball size.

So, I'd go with that, and some nice fat sluggy welds, well as much as you can lay on .250 bar stock.

[Konstantin the Red]

Quarter inch square or round stock is like totally the usual standard, though square is much fiddlier to use and get looking good. Skinnier bars need to be placed closer together than the maximum regulation spacing and more crossmembers in support. It's all commonsense, rule of thumb engineering. Cutting bar lengths with boltcutters naturally leaves angled cut-ends that are convenient for excellent penetration and fill in welding.

I was looking at the BP's bascinet and thinking, "There isn't any sign of helmet edge under the camail pushing any part of it out." For what that may be worth, that's why I figure the camail strap is very near the edges. But it could be a matter of artistic interpretation and convention, as has been discussed almost ad nauseam.