I want to build an SCA kit around a Sallet

Tor Magnusson · Post by **Tor Magnusson** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 2:48 pm

So what do I need? Any pictures of good SCA kits?

Thanks

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:31 pm

The "Sallet" in its many forms was used by many cultures over many years.

I think you need to narrow down your requirements a bit.

Tor Magnusson · Post by **Tor Magnusson** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:58 pm

Say something like this..

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 4:59 pm

OK, that is a place to start. It is an oddball sallet, however, in that it is along the lines of a typical Western European sallet in form, but it lacks the brow-reenforce which is a German detail (lacking the reenforce), and the two aren't often, if ever found together. German sallets usually have a deep tail, which it is tough to tell if this has from this angle.

You could put it together to look nice as a South German style of armour, in which case, look to clothing styles of the 1470's and early 1480's from Germany.

InsaneIrish · Post by **InsaneIrish** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:05 pm

lots of variation on the Sallet and kit:

http://www.companie-of-st-george.ch/cms ... y_Military

Tor Magnusson · Post by **Tor Magnusson** » Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:06 pm

BTW, I don't own any sallet yet..... Need to purchase that too....

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:16 am

Offhand, I'd say you need to purchase that first.

Can you detail your metalbending skills for us, Tor? Any plans for making some of this harness yourself to save bucks so you can still buy yourself some rattan?

knitebee · Post by **knitebee** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 2:58 am

chef de chambre wrote:OK, that is a place to start. It is an oddball sallet, however, in that it is along the lines of a typical Western European sallet in form, but it lacks the brow-reenforce which is a German detail (lacking the reenforce), and the two aren't often, if ever found together. German sallets usually have a deep tail, which it is tough to tell if this has from this angle.

You could put it together to look nice as a South German style of armour, in which case, look to clothing styles of the 1470's and early 1480's from Germany.

Chef, are you sure about the brow reinforce? Do not both the Helmschmid suits lack a brow reinforce on the helms. I thought the brow reinforce plates came about a little later down the time line.

Tor Magnusson · Post by **Tor Magnusson** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:15 am

Konstantin the Red wrote:Offhand, I'd say you need to purchase that first.

Can you detail your metalbending skills for us, Tor? Any plans for making some of this harness yourself to save bucks so you can still buy yourself some rattan?

I will be buying most of it.....

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:25 am

knitebee wrote:
chef de chambre wrote:OK, that is a place to start. It is an oddball sallet, however, in that it is along the lines of a typical Western European sallet in form, but it lacks the brow-reenforce which is a German detail (lacking the reenforce), and the two aren't often, if ever found together. German sallets usually have a deep tail, which it is tough to tell if this has from this angle.

You could put it together to look nice as a South German style of armour, in which case, look to clothing styles of the 1470's and early 1480's from Germany.

Chef, are you sure about the brow reinforce? Do not both the Helmschmid suits lack a brow reinforce on the helms. I thought the brow reinforce plates came about a little later down the time line.

I am positive.

Yes, Helmschmid suiits lack brow reenforces - the are of German manufacture.

'Western European' sallets have them with demi-visors, it is a characteristic marker. They appear by mid century at the latest.

'Western European armour', a modern armour scholars definition, covers armour not produced in Italy or Germany - the term used a generation or two ago was 'Flemish', but it covers armour produced in France, Spain, the Low Countries, and England. The reason for this is German and Italian armours have been well defined and classified, Western European armours have not, but recent scholarship has shown a distinc difference between these styles and either German or Italian.

knitebee · Post by **knitebee** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:44 pm

Thanks for the clarification Chef

zachos · Post by **zachos** » Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:45 pm

I'm not big into SCA scene, but here are some nice harnesses you might enjoy:

link: Graham Turners "English" harness made by Will West. Lovely.

link: Slightly easier on the pocket, add in a bevor and this little number would be a fine working harness for the working man.

link: Finally, a peruse through here will bring up some nice outfits. Look out for Ben Van Koerts brigandine rig. Its lovely.

I personally prefer other helmets to the sallet. I just don't like the look of them. Big into armets myself, but maybe thats the horseman part of me talking.

Kaos · Post by **Kaos** » Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:59 pm

zachos wrote:link: Finally, a peruse through here will bring up some nice outfits. Look out for Ben Van Koerts brigandine rig. Its lovely.

I personally prefer other helmets to the sallet. I just don't like the look of them. Big into armets myself, but maybe thats the horseman part of me talking.

Thanks Zachos! I must say your rig is coming along nicely as well, love your new Vickers legs! My sallet's to be replaced soon though, but it's replacement will be a sallet too, just a better one. Raised skull this time, all hardened and tempered spring steel, quintessential Italian Export. Just a few more months... Can't wait for it to be ready..

But, to go back on topic:

What kind of style are you after? Or exact period or location? Or the status of your persona?
There are so many styles of sallet and distinct accompanying rigs, that it's impossible to pinpoint one certain style for you.

Halbrust · Post by **Halbrust** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 2:27 am

I can't help with the answer, but I'd like to piggy back on with a question.

When and where do the sallets with the extreme back side come from? You know, the ones that look similar to speed helmets in modern sports.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:59 am

Halbrust wrote:I can't help with the answer, but I'd like to piggy back on with a question.

When and where do the sallets with the extreme back side come from? You know, the ones that look similar to speed helmets in modern sports.

If you are refering to long articulated tail helmets, the articulated tail being long, these are 1480's-1490's. They in no way resemble a 'speed helmet', all such sallets take into account the back of a mans head before the tail begins. A lot of SCA versions of this helmet come off poorly in regards to shape in comparison to what they are supposed to be. They are rather like Stanislas prosecks recent sallet, but with an articulated tail pointed more like a horseshoe crabs tail.

If you are talking about the craptastic, cheap black sallets, as worn by light calvary from the city of Nuremburg, and that show up in Albrecht Drurers "Knight, Death and the Devil", that the Wallace Collection, Churburg, and the Barvarian State Museum all have examples of, you are looking at the 1490's-1500.

Halbrust · Post by **Halbrust** » Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:01 pm

Doing a google image search it looks as though what I'm thinking of is the articulated tail

Looks like a medievil versian of this to me

But that's just my opinion. Thanks for the info on the time frame.

chef de chambre · Post by **chef de chambre** » Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:39 am

The modern speed helmet does not conform to the back of the skull of the wearer as does the late schallern.

As you look at more and more images of Medieval helmets from different angles, you will; deveop more and more of an eye from the form.

If you want that sort of sallet, your choice is strictly German or Bohemian (or Polish), and your time-frame is post 1480, up to the mid 1520's or so, because they didn't make that sort of articulated long- tailed schallern prior to then, and after that point, they pass out of use as unfashionable.