Is there such a thing as....

Gorm · Post by **Gorm** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:33 am

*clear* strapping tape?

I have a warped idea, but it would be completely useless if such a thing does not exist...

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:36 am

Gorm wrote:*clear* strapping tape?

I have a warped idea, but it would be completely useless if such a thing does not exist...

there is clear tape packing tape....

Strapping tape has the fiberglass strings through it....
( IIRC )

Gorm · Post by **Gorm** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:48 am

Hence the rub....those strings are going to get in the way of the idea, unless they are invisible for some reason...since they are required to be there.

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:54 am

required?

Gorm · Post by **Gorm** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:59 am

Ayep....

Logan has developed and brought to market these perfectly wonderful wood grain spears...

I was pondering if his material could be used to make the 1/4" rods necessary for CA as well....however, it then occurred to me that it would be silly to try, as the beauty would be marred, irreparably, by the strapping tape we're forced to put on our fiberglass shafts because someone thinks it makes them safer (how, precisely, I have no idea...I understood it back in the days of wood, but fiberglass doesn't splinter like that).

So...unless there is such a thing as clear tape that meets the requirements, never mind...

kenrickb · Post by **kenrickb** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:20 am

Gorm wrote:Ayep....

Logan has developed and brought to market these perfectly wonderful wood grain spears...

I was pondering if his material could be used to make the 1/4" rods necessary for CA as well....however, it then occurred to me that it would be silly to try, as the beauty would be marred, irreparably, by the strapping tape we're forced to put on our fiberglass shafts because someone thinks it makes them safer (how, precisely, I have no idea...I understood it back in the days of wood, but fiberglass doesn't splinter like that).

So...unless there is such a thing as clear tape that meets the requirements, never mind...

There is clear duct tape, but in my experience it doesn't stick as well as the standard silver.

Kenric

Baron Conal · Post by **Baron Conal** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:40 am

oh, it's for combat archery.....

in that case good sir you are the spawn of Satan
and should be ashamed of yourself....

( that's the correct responce, right? :wink:

)

talaananthes · Post by **talaananthes** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:48 am

But if you're going to die to an unchivalrous peasant's weapon, wouldn't you at least rather it be a good looking one? :lol:

Not that I have a problem personally, but I know some people do.

OP--Sorry, no, I can't think of a tape that does what you need it to do. You can have clear, or you can have worth a damn, but you can't have both as far as I know.

Gorm · Post by **Gorm** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:55 am

Baron Conal wrote:( that's the correct responce, right? )

Not nearly enough venom, sorry, but you gotta ramp it up a couple notches...

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 12:04 pm

You might be able to get a variance as an experimenta weapon and use some other tape....
I would think something like wresling mat tape would work well.

CiaranBlackrune · Post by **CiaranBlackrune** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:36 pm

Or maybe got the other way and look for wood grained tape.

Maeryk · Post by **Maeryk** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:45 pm

CiaranBlackrune wrote:Or maybe got the other way and look for wood grained tape.

Why bother? 1.25" diameter wood is a ballista bolt, not an arrow.

Trying to make it LOOK like an arrow is dumb. It doesn't. It's like making some massive 3" piece of rattan "look" like a sword.. swords aren't round.

Gorm · Post by **Gorm** » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:27 pm

I'm actually looking at it for the 1/4" shafts of shafted CA, not the 1 1/2" monstrosities of the siloflex world.

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:33 am

CiaranBlackrune wrote:Or maybe got the other way and look for wood grained tape.

This would be my route. I know they print camo duct-tape for hunters. I wonder if they print camo strapping tape? The right bark grain might work.

Sean

Paul the Small · Post by **Paul the Small** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:38 am

Could you tape them up normally, then wrap them in wood grain contact paper?

Then again, no matter what you do it'll still have the APD and a large padded tip. It still won't look like an arrow.

Gorm · Post by **Gorm** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:21 am

True...but the existence of the large padded tip making our spears look nothing like real spears hasn't stopped folks from thinking the woodgrain spears are a significant improvement.

Baby steps.

benz72 · Post by **benz72** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 3:55 pm

Gorm wrote:True...but the existence of the large padded tip making our spears look nothing like real spears hasn't stopped folks from thinking the woodgrain spears are a significant improvement.

Baby steps.

On that note, the thing that makes spear heads look so putrid (to me) is that the bases are as wide as the tips. If the contact end were permitted to be smaller (while still requiring the 3" diam padding in front of the cap) and the rearmost end flared a little I think they could look significantly better with little effort and no effect on safety.

[/opinion]

dukelogan · Post by **dukelogan** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 6:33 pm

i have some samples on the way of wood grain arrow and bolts. i dont get why we have this requirement that they be strapping taped anyway, seems silly to me since the fiberglass itself isnt going to break and be any more dangerous than when its intact.

im also getting some samples of really cheap/bad strapping tape (ie very few fibers) since the rule only states that they have tape on them, not what the quality of that tape is. since i feel they are not made more safe by using strapping tape i have no qualms about supplying some strapping tape with very few fibers so as to not mar the appearance of the shafts.

more to come as soon as i have the samples, have tested them, worked out some pricing, etc.

regards
logan

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:39 pm

dukelogan wrote:since i feel they are not made more safe by using strapping tape i have no qualms about supplying some strapping tape with very few fibers so as to not mar the appearance of the shafts.

regards
logan

God I love you and what you do for the SCA. :twisted:

Every so often the rules need a hard kick in the teeth to show that they are just rules and not carved by God into blocks of granite. Thank you!

Any thoughts on getting past the requirement that ballista bolts need to be 100% OSHA safety yellow? You find a cost competitive solution to that and I'll buy the first 50 rounds of ammo for the household.

Sean

dukelogan · Post by **dukelogan** » Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:23 pm

havent tried to tackle that one yet. hmmmm.... i might take a look at that one too.

seriously, our rules are mostly very cool and a lot of them make sense. not all of them though. too many rules made by too many folks that panic and create "what if" scenarios in their heads and then make up rules they think will make us safe. as a former marshal i tried to break some combat arrows and could not, in any way, find them more dangerous after breaking them. not to mention, im not sure how our regular contests would create common situations for these things to break in the first place.

regards
logan

Sean Powell wrote:
dukelogan wrote:since i feel they are not made more safe by using strapping tape i have no qualms about supplying some strapping tape with very few fibers so as to not mar the appearance of the shafts.

regards
logan

God I love you and what you do for the SCA. Every so often the rules need a hard kick in the teeth to show that they are just rules and not carved by God into blocks of granite. Thank you!

Any thoughts on getting past the requirement that ballista bolts need to be 100% OSHA safety yellow? You find a cost competitive solution to that and I'll buy the first 50 rounds of ammo for the household.

Sean

Richard Blackmoore · Post by **Richard Blackmoore** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:15 pm

Logan,

Considering how many times you've been unfairly maligned by some in the CA community over the years, I commend you for trying to improve CA ammo after your successful efforts with spears.

Lots of people have commented positively on your spears' appearance and the strength of the thick walled versions. Sorry I missed you at the East's 100 Minutes War, my Lady said she had fun with you & Esa.

Unfortunately it looks like I can't afford Gulf Wars this year. Hopefully things will have improved by Pennsic.

Richard Blackmoore

P.S. To be fair, given my prior criticisms of Gorm on other aspects of CA, I should thank him for his efforts re: CA appearance as well.

dukelogan · Post by **dukelogan** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:10 pm

cant blame all of them for the actions of a few. :wink:

99% of the combat archers are fine folks and i have excellent interactions with them. a few have been, well, asshats. they do nothing to enhance the opinions of their activity and, unfortunatly, have colored the overall impressions of many fighters. which, i think, sucks.

100 minutes was fun but that hill fighting was wearing on my knee too much for me to stay out there too long. too bad it wasnt a week or so later as all of the stability returned fairly quickly. would have been much cooler to be out there swinging the whole time. your wife was an excellent host to esa and i (as were all the great folks at the event).

gorm and i dont agree on much but i think he really would like to see a little more respect shown to the combat archery community. i agree. my main concern is that we do anything we can to improve our society and providing arrows and bolts that look better is but a small step. carrying the market on such things, to be honest, doesnt suck either.

my samples should be in soon and testing will be very quick im sure since they are the same thing as what is already approved just with a different veil on the rod. having dealt with customs and language barriers to a level of frustration i cannot begin to express i am going to have these in hand before i advertise them.

regards
logan

Richard Blackmoore wrote:Logan,

Considering how many times you've been unfairly maligned by some in the CA community over the years, I commend you for trying to improve CA ammo after your successful efforts with spears.

Lots of people have commented positively on your spears' appearance and the strength of the thick walled versions. Sorry I missed you at the East's 100 Minutes War, my Lady said she had fun with you & Esa.

Unfortunately it looks like I can't afford Gulf Wars this year. Hopefully things will have improved by Pennsic.

Richard Blackmoore

P.S. To be fair, given my prior criticisms of Gorm on other aspects of CA, I should thank him for his efforts re: CA appearance as well.

freiman the minstrel · Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:34 pm

you know, it might be possible to paint the shaft after applying the fiber tape. Conceivably, you could come up with a stencil made of flexible plastic to do some woodgraining.

And, honestly, having anything on the field look better is a laudable goal.

f

Gorm · Post by **Gorm** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:46 pm

The difficulty with that is that someone will claim you're interfereing with the ability to inspect the tape...

Which is, I suppose, true...but among the things Logan and I agree on is that *on fiberglass shafts*, the strapping tape accomplishes nothing.

It's a remnant from the bad old days of wooden shafts, when splinters and breakage were every battle occurrences...I get that...but that time is long gone. It's time to let it go, at least the longitudinal stuff on the shaft. the tape that helps secure the head, yes, that needs to stay, no question (at least until some better scheme comes along).

Alex Baird · Post by **Alex Baird** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:11 pm

Sound like what you need is strapping tape that's clear with tan fibers. Apply that to a brown fibreglas shaft, and it would simulate a wood grain.

(actually, what's needed is what everyone here has already mentioned: dump the antiquated tape rule for fibreglas shafts.)

dukelogan · Post by **dukelogan** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:17 pm

i also working with a company to produce me some samples of strapping tape with a wood grain embossement under the fibers. not sure if that will pan out as their minimum order is 100,000 sq feet. :wink:

regards
logan

Gorm · Post by **Gorm** » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:18 pm

Hmm....let's see....

100,000 square feet....at 1" wide, that's 1,200,000 inches of tape.

28" arrows, call it 30 for math....

40,000 arrows worth of tape.

YEah, that might be a bit more than the market will demand....

sean of the chipendales · Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:34 pm

Gorm wrote:Hmm....let's see....

100,000 square feet....at 1" wide, that's 1,200,000 inches of tape.

28" arrows, call it 30 for math....

40,000 arrows worth of tape.

YEah, that might be a bit more than the market will demand....

Oh, I don't know...... That seems to be how many are used in the Gulf Wars Ravine battle..... :twisted:

dukelogan · Post by **dukelogan** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:45 pm

ta-dah!! we finally worked out an acceptable appearance that im happy with and my supplier is ready to produce them:

http://ebonwoulfe.com/armory.htm

see the image at the bottom of the page. i do not have pricing yet, only the samples. they are the same as what is currently being used for combat arrows and bolts only they have a wood grain finish. plan is to sell them for the same as what the plain white rods go for which, i think, is $1 and $.50 respectively.

i put some really cheap (ie very few fiber threads) strapping tape on one and it really didnt make much visual impact. i think we need to look at this whole strapping tape rule and what purpose it is supposed to serve since i broke a couple of them with, and without, tape and found the tape made no difference in the end. i saw no change in safety between the two either.

anyhow, we will be placing an order for these within the next week or so and then they will arrive within 45 days from then. updates will be coming as soon as they are ready for sale.

regards
logan

dukelogan wrote:cant blame all of them for the actions of a few. 99% of the combat archers are fine folks and i have excellent interactions with them. a few have been, well, asshats. they do nothing to enhance the opinions of their activity and, unfortunatly, have colored the overall impressions of many fighters. which, i think, sucks.

100 minutes was fun but that hill fighting was wearing on my knee too much for me to stay out there too long. too bad it wasnt a week or so later as all of the stability returned fairly quickly. would have been much cooler to be out there swinging the whole time. your wife was an excellent host to esa and i (as were all the great folks at the event).

gorm and i dont agree on much but i think he really would like to see a little more respect shown to the combat archery community. i agree. my main concern is that we do anything we can to improve our society and providing arrows and bolts that look better is but a small step. carrying the market on such things, to be honest, doesnt suck either.

my samples should be in soon and testing will be very quick im sure since they are the same thing as what is already approved just with a different veil on the rod. having dealt with customs and language barriers to a level of frustration i cannot begin to express i am going to have these in hand before i advertise them.

regards
logan

Richard Blackmoore wrote:Logan,

Considering how many times you've been unfairly maligned by some in the CA community over the years, I commend you for trying to improve CA ammo after your successful efforts with spears.

Lots of people have commented positively on your spears' appearance and the strength of the thick walled versions. Sorry I missed you at the East's 100 Minutes War, my Lady said she had fun with you & Esa.

Unfortunately it looks like I can't afford Gulf Wars this year. Hopefully things will have improved by Pennsic.

Richard Blackmoore

P.S. To be fair, given my prior criticisms of Gorm on other aspects of CA, I should thank him for his efforts re: CA appearance as well.

Cian of Storvik · Post by **Cian of Storvik** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:01 pm

Oooh slick. Just in time. I need crossbow ammo.
-Cian

Gorm · Post by **Gorm** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:15 pm

daaaaaaaammmmmmn those look good.

dukelogan · Post by **dukelogan** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:39 pm

they look better in person. i really need a new camera, and this time im not buying some reconditioned piece.

i will know something firm about pricing in he next day or so and will send out an update. in the meantime pass the word around about them as the more interest there is the greater the discounts might be.

regards
logan

ps gorm, shoot me a private email with your address and i will ship you a couple to look at.

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:57 pm

I"ll take four dozen.

dukelogan · Post by **dukelogan** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:17 pm

oh, and because someone asked be about the sizes:

based on what i found in the society regs for combat arrows/bolts they are .25" diameter and 28.5" as well as 14" in length. and solid of course.

if i am missing something or some need, please let me know.

regards
logan

Jean Paul de Sens · Post by **Jean Paul de Sens** » Tue Jan 19, 2010 2:35 am

dukelogan wrote:oh, and because someone asked be about the sizes:

based on what i found in the society regs for combat arrows/bolts they are .25" diameter and 28.5" as well as 14" in length. and solid of course.

if i am missing something or some need, please let me know.

regards
logan

You sir, are brilliant. What a great idea.

JP

Is there such a thing as....

Is there such a thing as....

Re: Is there such a thing as....

wood grain arrows coming soon