New Spangen helm

Pedro Ramirez · Post by **Pedro Ramirez** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:13 pm

Hey all I thought I'd show you all a new spangen I'm working on.
Almost finished (except for the grill, that comes last).
The bowl and cheeks are 14ga and the nasal and slats are 12ga.
Let me know what you think.
Pedro

Benedek · Post by **Benedek** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:40 pm

sweet.

somomailler · Post by **somomailler** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:43 pm

wow I really like that

bet its heavy as a bear though

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:23 pm

That's frickin' cherry. I can see you put a lot of attention into detail.
I was about to yell "HEADSMASHER!" (it's a pet peeve of mine), but then I noticed that they're all smashed evenly... or else it looks like it. It's a good effect, looks like the materials didn't come over mail order that way.

Yeah, that's solid... I would have done the vertical strips out of 16g and felt perfectly happy with it.

I like how you didn't smash down the cap. (An advantage of 12g I guess). But why did you use a different size rivet on the cap?

It's an outstanding hat, and it'll make someone very happy.

Matthew Amt · Post by **Matthew Amt** » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:28 pm

Ha, inspired by the same style as my own current project! Just a TAD beefier than mine, though. Nicely put together, very neat!

Matthew

redrook · Post by **redrook** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:29 am

I love it!!! Great job.

Pedro Ramirez · Post by **Pedro Ramirez** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:49 am

schreiber wrote:That's frickin' cherry. I can see you put a lot of attention into detail.
I was about to yell "HEADSMASHER!" (it's a pet peeve of mine), but then I noticed that they're all smashed evenly... or else it looks like it. It's a good effect, looks like the materials didn't come over mail order that way.

Yeah, that's solid... I would have done the vertical strips out of 16g and felt perfectly happy with it.

I like how you didn't smash down the cap. (An advantage of 12g I guess). But why did you use a different size rivet on the cap?

It's an outstanding hat, and it'll make someone very happy.

Thanks, the different rivets on the top-cap were a customer request (no idea why) but I think it works and doesn't detract from the overall look of the helmet.

And you guys are right, it's a heavy-ish (not too bad though) helmet but the guy is a new SCA fighter and I think it will stand up to more punishment this way.
Either way, he'll have a decent looking helmet for a good number of years.
Pedro.

Halbrust · Post by **Halbrust** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:33 pm

Is it bad form to ask how much this was sold for?

Pitbull Armory · Post by **Pitbull Armory** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:49 pm

Nice one Pedro, Thanks for sharing.

Take care

Pitbull

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:02 pm

Halbrust wrote:Is it bad form to ask how much this was sold for?

Sort of.
A PM would, might be better than the open forum.

That sure is a nice helm, my favorite type of spangen.

Jolly well done.
Thanks for sharing.

Hal

Pedro Ramirez · Post by **Pedro Ramirez** » Sun Jan 17, 2010 7:04 pm

Halbrust wrote:Is it bad form to ask how much this was sold for?

Naah, I don't mind.
It was $375.00 and I have yet to see if this one is acceptable to him (the last one was too small because he gave me the wrong measurements).
If not, no biggie, I have 2 people waiting in the wings to snag it.

Pedro Ramirez · Post by **Pedro Ramirez** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:58 am

Oop,

No replies to the price? Is it too high?
Any constructive advice would be good. And please remember, the grill is not on yet.
Pedro

redrook · Post by **redrook** » Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:56 pm

I personally don't think its too much,but like many armourers you likely rarely get paid what your work is worth.

Richard

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:18 am

I also, don't think the price is high.
You still have several more hours for the grill.

It takes me about 6 hours to make a bar grill.
What with all the grinding and finishing.
This was a grill in progress pic.
http://home.armourarchive.org/members/h ... Grill3.jpg

I use a carbide cutter with my dremel to blend the welds, and a small sanding drum to smooth them out.
Detail blending is accomplished with rat-tail files.
A chain saw sharpening round file works quite well.
Then I finish up with strips of emery paper by hand.

I bet if you added up all the hours you have in that helm and divided into 375 you would be surprised.
Then... subtract the cost of metal, rivets, expendables and overhead for another shock.

This is precisely why I don't make helms for people anymore.
I can not compete with the current market and I no longer believe in altruism.

YMMV.

Hal

Sean Powell · Post by **Sean Powell** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:14 am

Pedro Ramirez wrote:Oop,

No replies to the price? Is it too high?
Any constructive advice would be good. And please remember, the grill is not on yet.
Pedro

Too low unless the price is without bar-grill... in which case it is still too low but less so.

Fine work, a good subtle shape and a mix of 12 and 14 gauge. Buyers often underestimate the amount of extra work that goes into shaping the thicker metal and only think about the material cost. Even with heat to make the thicker metal move a production armorer has to pay for the fuel for the torch as well as amortizing the cost of the torch itself.

That price for a CUSTOM helm is more then fair. If you don't think so total up your hours on it (including the helm that was too small) and divide that into the price and see if you wouldn't be more profitible working at McDonalds.

Please do a careful job with the bar visor and make it low-profile so it dosn't detract from the rest of the helmet. You have done such a nice job that it would be a shame to ruin it with with a sloppy visor.

Luck!
Sean

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:34 am

Dude, Hal, you have got to get a gas welder. Once you're good at it, you just tell the metal what to look like as you're welding it.

Of course, I hate the dusty operations more than any other part of this, so I go out of my way to avoid them.

Halbrust · Post by **Halbrust** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:38 pm

Awesome price for a beautiful hat.

I'm saving for a Hjalmr hat right now though. So it will be a long time before I'm able to commision something like that.

Pedro Ramirez · Post by **Pedro Ramirez** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:10 pm

Thanks for the compliments guys.
And yes, I do realize that the helm is underpriced. I have a VERY bad habit of underpricing ALL my armor and blacksmithing.
Why? I don't know. Hell, I've given pieces away because I'm just thrilled someone likes it.
I'm getting better though.
I don't make armour for a living. Only about two to 4 pieces a month.
And there is a line where the customer simply refuses to pay what the helmet (or other piece of armor) is worth and goes with something lesser, but a LOT cheaper. To a lot of people, the bottom line is the price.
How many times do you hear "meh, I can just cover it with a surcoat"?
So Halberds, I totally hear what you're saying.
Sean, I'll try. I have a gas welder now so hopefully I'll keep the "slop" to a minimum.
Pedro

SyrTheo · Post by **SyrTheo** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:09 pm

Very Nice work Pedro!!

Is the helm based on a single extant piece?, or designed from a couple different period styles?

Also, is there going to be a support bar for the slats?

Well done!
Eorl Syr EikBrandr

Pedro Ramirez · Post by **Pedro Ramirez** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:01 pm

Syr Brandr,
It's based on several types (modified to SCA standards of course) I tried to keep the most authentic look possible while still accomodating the customer.
Yes there is a band supporting the slats, it's installed now (12 ga hardened).
The grill is the last part I need to make. Going to pickup the steel tomorrow from my source.
Hopefully I can get the hang of this gas welder in time. I hate to waste good steel rod...

SyrTheo · Post by **SyrTheo** » Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:42 pm

Pedro Ramirez wrote:Syr Brandr,
It's based on several types (modified to SCA standards of course) I tried to keep the most authentic look possible while still accomodating the customer.
Yes there is a band supporting the slats, it's installed now (12 ga hardened).
The grill is the last part I need to make. Going to pickup the steel tomorrow from my source.
Hopefully I can get the hang of this gas welder in time. I hate to waste good steel rod...

Very good! Thx.
Oh, and I like to have the grill blackened to help hide it as well as attaching as much to the Inside of the cheeks as possible!
Eik

New Spangen helm

New Spangen helm

Hi