What goes into a Pas d'Armes?

[Jestyr]

The other day, I mentioned to a friend that I would be running an event in the upcoming year. Her immediate reaction was, "Do a Pas!"

We spent some time discussing it and it sounds like fun. I have since done some research and found the following sites that were helpful:
http://www.chronique.com/Library/Tourneys/pasessay.htm
http://www.calafia.org/library/pas.html
http://www.chronique.com/george.htm
(And a few others)

The last of which (St. George) detailed certain aspects of the Pas.

But I still have questions. In no particular order:

Is it fun for non-fighters? Sub-question: Will I need other activities going on beside the Pas? If so, what?

Can it be a day trip event?

What is the minimum number of fighters to make it worthwhile?

Should I run a fencing tourney before, or even as part, of the Pas?

Can the Marshal/emcee also fight?

Any tips or tricks you'd offer to ensure success?

What formats would you suggest?

???

Thanks in advance.

[William of Stonebridge]

Here are some links for running a Pas that I had beside the ones you listed.

Company of the Grail - How to Run a Pas de' Armes
Drachenwald's 10th year Anniversary Celebration
King René's Tournament Book

[raito]

I've unquoted the questions. Answers are solely based on my experiences.

Is it fun for non-fighters? Sub-question: Will I need other activities going on beside the Pas? If so, what?

It can be more fun for non-fighters, because non-fighters generally need something to cleanse their plaettes between bouts. But you have to be doing things that entertain non-fighters.

Fighters can find the Pas boring, because there's often very little fighting. In some Pas, you may only fight a couple times. If it were open fighting, you might get a hundred bouts in a day.

Other activities are distractions. If you do a Pas right, you don't need anything else.

Can it be a day trip event?

Sure, unless you're going all Rene and everyone has to put their arms in the windows of their inns.

What is the minimum number of fighters to make it worthwhile?

Enough so that everyone gets to fight everyone else. Not so many that the same guys fight over and over (depends on the format). That doesn't seem to fit the historical models I've read.

Should I run a fencing tourney before, or even as part, of the Pas?

It is my experience that the 2 don't mix well.ifferent paradigms, if you will.

Can the Marshal/emcee also fight?

Probably not. They're also stage managering things. It's entertainment, and so the staging, etc. has to go well.

Any tips or tricks you'd offer to ensure success?

Make sure all the requirements, and what's going to happen are well know way ahead of time. This not only lets those interested get ready, but warns off those guys who aren't interested. Having guys in a Pas who aren't into it really sucks, for everyone.

Do not allow the fighters to line up or crowd the lists. Make them wait away from the edge until summoned. Nothing messes with the tourney vibe like guys waiting around to fight, and blocking the view of everyone else.

Consider separating the combatants from the spectators. Put one on one side, and the other on the other.

What formats would you suggest?

(Some are not strictly Pas, just more formal)

If you have a number of high-rank, or skill fighters, consider having them be the tenans. Have the visitors challenge, perhaps with weapons or terms, and let the tenans send out who they will.

I have also run something of an earlier style tournament, where everyone was on the field at once. Two limbs taken and you yield and pay your ransom. Kill someone and you pay them 3. Wirked fine until the rich guys gutted everyone (it was a ressurection thing, but crashed the spirit of the thing hard).

Recreate the whole Saxons vs. Normas thing from Ivanhoe.

Do one of those late period things where everyone is some fantastic, mythological character (helps with people who don't have correct kit for the Pas time period).

Make sure to have the grand melee somewhere in there.

There's lots of ways to make fighting more of a spectator sport. But much of it isn't about the fighting.

[Vitus von Atzinger]

Is this an SCA pas, a 14th century pas or a 15th century pas?

[^]

A Pas d'Armes needs two things, a Pas and Armes. Or to be more anglish. You need a passage and weapons.
The quintessential Pas that most everyone here will recognize is the scene with the Black Knight in Monty Python's Search For the Holy Grail.
Basically a group of defenders will be at x place from y to y+ to defend the place against all comers based on z rules.

[Jestyr]

Is this an SCA pas, a 14th century pas or a 15th century pas?

SCA Pas. I was just going to use the Pas format and "feel", but SCA kits would be welcome.

While a time specific Pas would be awesome, I'd be surprised if I were able to get a turnout of appropriate kits.

[Jestyr]

William: Thank you for the links. I'll review.

Raito: Excellent info. Exactly what I needed to know.

It opens a new question, though: Is an SCA Pas a good idea? Is it usually a popular event?

Keep the advice coming!

[Munz]

The Company of St George in Caid has run a Pas at every Great Western War. I have had the opportunity to organize some of the last few in one way or another. In my opinion it is very hard to narrow these events down a single particular time frame without conflicting with the spirit of the event, ei. all 14th or 15th century attendees, etc. The main thing to focus on is the idea that vain glory achieved only through victory is not the focus, but rather a focus on the grand spectacle that the Feat of Arms is as a whole. This includes really looking and acting the part of a knight (or man at arms), inclusion of the gallery in the challenges and making the tournament the focus of the day. What takes place on the field needs to be more than just some guys hitting each other for their own amusement but rather for the enjoyment of the entire gathering. The fighting needs to be fun, exciting, and full of flare.

Is it fun for non-fighters? Sub-question: Will I need other activities going on beside the Pas? If so, what?

Yes, it can be fun for the non-fighters. How much fun depends on those in the gallery and those on the field. If everyone throws themselves into the spirit of the day it can be a blast for all. The fighters need to PAY ATTENTION to the gallery, include them, play to them. And the gallery need to pay attention to the fights, punishing those who are unchivalrous, exalting the great fights and the chivalrous. Also give the gallery an opportunity to set tasks and challenges for the fighters. I usually write up some ideas for interesting fights in case the gallery is too shy to comeup with their own. Also, we have taught some simple period crafts to those who were tiring of the fighting - like fingerloop braiding, wad buttons, and hand stitched eyelets.

Can it be a day trip event?

Yes, all of our events have been single day events. It's easier at a war, but it can be done in one day. It's nice to have a feast afterward to make all the effort worth wile.

What is the minimum number of fighters to make it worthwhile?

We have had fun events with 6 on 6. Its starts to get difficult IMO after you reach the 30 total fighters mark. I have found that many challengers like to fight one on one as opposed to group fighting. So when you have 15 fights to get through in a round plus all of the interaction with the gallery it can get a little bogged down with too many fights. I have also found that running multiple fights at a time just doesn't work. It really takes away from the glory of each individual challenge and the focus gets lost. If you have a big turn out, gear the fighting to more melee types of fights or fights between groups or 2s or 3s.

Should I run a fencing tourney before, or even as part, of the Pas?

I don't want to be mean but I just don't think that fencing works in a Pas format. Sorry, it just moves way too slow and frankly is just too boring. I wouldn't include it. The St George Pas is a special event tourney at an SCA war so we don't feel the need to be inclusive.

Can the Marshal/emcee also fight?

I don't recommend it. I think it's best when the knight of honor runs the fighting scenarios and is not JUST a marshal. You need a separate herald to keep the list of challenges in order . I found this last year that my knight of honor didn't pay too close attention to the rules of the scenarios and had a tendency to wander off and talk to his lady or the gallery and I had to run around and find him AND try to organize the fighting while I was a combatant. The more help he better.

Any tips or tricks you'd offer to ensure success?

Good refreshments for the gallery, keep them happy and fed and they will stay for the fighting. Get a good herald! This is much more than just a tourney, it is a performance, and you want to sell that to the audience. A good knight of honor (head marshall) that is really on board with the challenge ideas. Have someone in the gallery to keep the non-fighters motivated, I would chose a well respected lady or ladies (a Lady of the Rose couldn't hurt!)

What formats would you suggest?

I try to get people fighting with things other than their usual sword and shield. I like battles that are pole weapons only or fights across a barrier single sword where the opponents must grip the barrier with one hand so they can't retreat.

PM me if you want any other ideas or questions. I hope some of this helps.

[Iain (Bunny) Ruadh]

The best way I had a "good" Pas explained to me was that it should be seen/done as the best SCA demo you could pull off given to other SCAdians. Get the good kit fighters with a clue of how to fight & perform. Get the best field herald you can, a great feast cook to make up snacks and such for the gallery. Your head marshal should be part stage manager, field herald and gladiatorial pit fighter. Find a batch of good 'clackers' to work the audience and then set it up for the spectacle and performance. If you've found fighters with good kits, a clue and skill .. it becomes very very memorable.

Edit to add: Oh and be sure to put the word out to your surrounding kingdoms and the various 'Pas' fighters in them. Get enough visitors coming in and spreading the word and you can roll it in again the following years.

P.P.S. I'm one of those out of kingdom Pas fighters (now that I've got my gear up to snuff) that will come to these in the Midrealm and the surrounding Kingdoms.

[AlexendreBautista]

The Company of St George in Caid has run a Pas at every Great Western War. I have had the opportunity to organize some of the last few in one way or another. In my opinion it is very hard to narrow these events down a single particular time frame without conflicting with the spirit of the event, ei. all 14th or 15th century attendees, etc. The main thing to focus on is the idea that vain glory achieved only through victory is not the focus, but rather a focus on the grand spectacle that the Feat of Arms is as a whole. This includes really looking and acting the part of a knight (or man at arms), inclusion of the gallery in the challenges and making the tournament the focus of the day. What takes place on the field needs to be more than just some guys hitting each other for their own amusement but rather for the enjoyment of the entire gathering. The fighting needs to be fun, exciting, and full of flare.

Is it fun for non-fighters? Sub-question: Will I need other activities going on beside the Pas? If so, what?

Yes, it can be fun for the non-fighters. How much fun depends on those in the gallery and those on the field. If everyone throws themselves into the spirit of the day it can be a blast for all. The fighters need to PAY ATTENTION to the gallery, include them, play to them. And the gallery need to pay attention to the fights, punishing those who are unchivalrous, exalting the great fights and the chivalrous. Also give the gallery an opportunity to set tasks and challenges for the fighters. I usually write up some ideas for interesting fights in case the gallery is too shy to comeup with their own. Also, we have taught some simple period crafts to those who were tiring of the fighting - like fingerloop braiding, wad buttons, and hand stitched eyelets.

Can it be a day trip event?

Yes, all of our events have been single day events. It's easier at a war, but it can be done in one day. It's nice to have a feast afterward to make all the effort worth wile.

What is the minimum number of fighters to make it worthwhile?

We have had fun events with 6 on 6. Its starts to get difficult IMO after you reach the 30 total fighters mark. I have found that many challengers like to fight one on one as opposed to group fighting. So when you have 15 fights to get through in a round plus all of the interaction with the gallery it can get a little bogged down with too many fights. I have also found that running multiple fights at a time just doesn't work. It really takes away from the glory of each individual challenge and the focus gets lost. If you have a big turn out, gear the fighting to more melee types of fights or fights between groups or 2s or 3s.

Should I run a fencing tourney before, or even as part, of the Pas?

I don't want to be mean but I just don't think that fencing works in a Pas format. Sorry, it just moves way too slow and frankly is just too boring. I wouldn't include it. The St George Pas is a special event tourney at an SCA war so we don't feel the need to be inclusive.

Can the Marshal/emcee also fight?

I don't recommend it. I think it's best when the knight of honor runs the fighting scenarios and is not JUST a marshal. You need a separate herald to keep the list of challenges in order . I found this last year that my knight of honor didn't pay too close attention to the rules of the scenarios and had a tendency to wander off and talk to his lady or the gallery and I had to run around and find him AND try to organize the fighting while I was a combatant. The more help he better.

Any tips or tricks you'd offer to ensure success?

Good refreshments for the gallery, keep them happy and fed and they will stay for the fighting. Get a good herald! This is much more than just a tourney, it is a performance, and you want to sell that to the audience. A good knight of honor (head marshall) that is really on board with the challenge ideas. Have someone in the gallery to keep the non-fighters motivated, I would chose a well respected lady or ladies (a Lady of the Rose couldn't hurt!)

What formats would you suggest?

I try to get people fighting with things other than their usual sword and shield. I like battles that are pole weapons only or fights across a barrier single sword where the opponents must grip the barrier with one hand so they can't retreat.

PM me if you want any other ideas or questions. I hope some of this helps.

is it fun for nonfighters? Yes it is the best way to invlove no fighters especaily the ladies, since nmost pas do have ladies representing the virtues of the pas.

Min number of fighters? Ihave seen Pas's with as few as 6 fighters and as many as 20 fighters

Can the Marshal or host fight. Not as a riule however at the last Pas I did the currant champion who was the host, faught a deed of arms with all commers wishing to fight for the championship prior to allowing them to enter the Pas

there are several basic ways to fight a pas open field challages, challanges over the barrier, open field melees, melees over the barrier. Retained wounds Melee this can be tricky as you retain tany wounds during the melee also if youare killed you are done for the event

as far as fun it is the utmost as there are numerious prizes listed in the King Renee, and each lady of the pas has the ability to present one or more tokens to those that best represent that virtue

all of the pas's that I have attended or hosted have been the greratest days of my life

[Milan H]

One way to make it more entertaining for non fighters is to keep the action up. Counted blows, Limbs dont count, etc are all good options. It keeps people from one shotting someone, and then walking off the field. That is boring. 5 minute energetic fights between two skilled fighters, very fun.

Next is to really get the fighters on board. They need to really put some pa-nosh into their armor and fights, and they should do things that may not be normal for the sake of entertainment. Let them know they ARE NOT there to be the hot stick, they are there to be Chivalrous and to keep the ladies entertained. Winning is secondary

Allow the gallery onto the field. Give them a wild array of weapons to choose from and let them decide who fights with what. This can lead to interesting matchups Keep them refreshed and comfortable. (chairs and people helping with drinks and snacks would be awesome) Involve the gallery, and have them decide some fights, weapons or rules. It can be funny to see what they come up with Perhaps have them decide who was the most chivalrous of the day, best death, had the most prowess etc.

Well done Pas are one of my favorite things, best of luck!


Cheers!

[Jestyr]

This is all wonderful advice. Thank you all.

The business meeting is tonight and I will be presenting this idea.

Keep the advice coming!

[Jestyr]

My shire agreed to do one later this year (May or June)! I'll post details as they develop.