well...flourentine practice

Oracle · Post by **Oracle** » Sat Jul 28, 2001 7:32 pm

ok here is the story... i will be eightteen i a few months so i will finally be able to fight!!!! i have been practicing with my brothers for three years (the oldest has been authorized for 5 years) and i am pretty good with flourentice swords...but i dont think i will be good enough to compete successfully. I still do some n00b 2stick stuff like hardly ever attacking w/ the left and dropping down the right when i do. does anyone have any tips for me so that i might train better? i really wanna do good my first time

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I am an Oracle, a blind one that is

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Sat Jul 28, 2001 9:15 pm

Yeah....

Pick up a shield, and fight like a man.

Asmodean · Post by **Asmodean** » Sat Jul 28, 2001 10:10 pm

While learning this style I fought offhand for a few months. Then slowly started working in both at once.

Frederich Von Teufel · Sun Jul 29, 2001 12:53 am

Sarnac, chill out, you're coming across as discourteous. Any weapon choice is as valid as any other. Support your brothers in arms, don't knock them.

Oracle, your problem is that you've allowed yourself to develop some bad habits. It's going to take some training to break them. My suggestion: start on the pell. Start slowly, throwing slow, deliberate blows only with your off-hand, making sure to not drop your other hand. Make sure to move while doing so; practice your footwork. Once you've practiced that daily for a couple of weeks, introduce this drill into your sparring. Concentrate on making the majority of your attacks with your off-hand, only allowing an occasional strike with your on-hand. Once that doesn't feel so strange any more (which will probably be a few weeks), then go back to the pell, and do slow work on multi-hand combos (left, right, left; right, left, left; and so on.) After a couple of weeks of daily practice on the pell, introduce the combos into your normal sparring.

Diligent practice will allow you to break your bad habits, nothing else. You have the time, use it to good end. And don't hesitate to ask the board if you run into more problems. There are those here to help you.

Frederich

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 2:10 pm

I am sure Sarnac is only joking.

Ideval · Post by **Ideval** » Sun Jul 29, 2001 5:22 pm

Yeah, but I'm not...
pick up a shield and fight like a man, or a woman fighting with a shield

Two sticks? Florentine? Are these the same? I'm confused.

I second the pell advice; it will save your partner's a lot of trouble, as well. I like to practice with overweight rebated swords and axes. Practice with real blades once in a while to put the fear of G*d in you. Respect for weapons, whether a willow switch, rattan club, or long sword, needs to be a huge part of your fighting philosophy. If this is not instilled and cultivated, stay far, far away from the field of battle.

Whenever you go hiking with friends, take a sword along and swing it to accustom your arm and get comfy with your sword. I hike with my "baby" all the time; we have a great relationship, and I am deadly (to some) with this sword as a result.

If you have been fighting for three years, I doubt you will have too many problems. Good luck.

IdÃ«val

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 8:01 am

I think we are being a little sensitive here are we not???

As always my response was tounge in cheek.

While I have my reasons for not appreciating the two sword style and there is very little to support its use in period, I dont believe that telling someone to pick up a shield and learn S/SH is "not supporting" them.

In fact it might be quite the contrary.

There are numerous lessons you need to learn with the lumber strapped to your arm in order to become a proficient fighter.

There are many lessons that carry over to ALL forms of combat that come from learning S/SH.
So while I WAS kidding around with my response, I do believe that starting with any form besides S/SH is a mistake, and may cause you to learn bad habits that will be hard to break later on.

Any one who knows me (ie. Vitus), Knows that there are few who are more dedicated to teaching our form of combat than me.
I meant no disrespect.

Cedric · Post by **Cedric** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 8:38 am

So what about us center grip shield users?

Why are you slamming on us with this "STRAP a shield on your arm" crap??

I couldnt fight my way out of wet paper bag with a strap on shield..

Cedric

Vitus von Atzinger · Post by **Vitus von Atzinger** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 9:17 am

The more I understand the authentic, medieval style of combat- the more that florentine seems very hard for me to accept as a possible period style.
When holding two crossguard swords it would be very difficult to grasp weapons or "show them the gate"- knock people on their backside. Only the largest of men could cross their swords in an X and meet a full-body charge. Shields and pole weapons are well-suited for this. The two-sword style is perfect for the primarily thrusting style of swordplay (case of rapiers).
I fully support it's use in the SCA lists because people need to follow whatever path is going to capture their imagination and fancy. Without a love-affair with a weapon style, fighting can quickly become ritualistic, predictable and boring.
Considering the real nature of medieval joust (single combats), tournament, and war- I can't see how the style would work under those authentic conditions. However, it is PERFECT for SCA combat. In fact, it may be the perfect SCA style- with basket blocking, high percentage of flat shots, no body checks or blade grasping you can't ask for anything more.
I still don't do it very often (about once a year).
-V

Noe · Post by **Noe** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 10:41 am

Hmm. What do you think about my style of florentine? I fight with a cross-hilted sword in my right hand and a cross hilted long dagger/short sword in my left. I never, or at least never intentionally, block with my guantlets.

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The defining characteristic of fanaticism is the inability to understand why everyone else is not a fanatic.

Ideval · Post by **Ideval** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 1:44 pm

On the few occasions that I have dueled with two weapons, I did as Noe mentions. I used a single hand broadsword in conjunction with a light helmet, maille shirt, pauldrons, gauntlets, and a baselard. Much as Gibson did in Hamlet.

One of the best offhand short swords is a shortened Starfire. If anyone is interested.

IdÃ«val

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 2:07 pm

Actually I fight with a center grip as well.
An oval.

I just used the term "strap it on" to be humorous, and as an analogy to represent picking up a shield.

Geez, you guys are being so Literal today.

Bedlam · Post by **Bedlam** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 2:14 pm

Sarnac:

They're just practicing up in case they get put in charge of something at Pennsic!

BEDLAM

Oracle · Post by **Oracle** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 8:41 pm

well thanks for the advice...most of it was helpful. How would i make a pell? or do i just stick a big piece of wood in the ground? well i have to go..gotta take a walk with my schticks

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I am an Oracle, a blind one that is

Ideval · Post by **Ideval** » Mon Jul 30, 2001 10:50 pm

I was very lucky to have received a few 8 foot lengths of tar-treated telephone pole. I dug a deep hole and planted the effer at just a little over six feet.

Others have recommended a four by four post, with a few sections of two by four screwed on for a "body" and then wrapped in carpet or fibrous door mat.

Pells were usually used, from what I've heard, with heavier rebated practice equipment.

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IdÃ«val
The Huntsman of
I-NossÃ« LÃºmÃ«vanwa
My mind opens wide when I roar

David deKunstenaar · Post by **David deKunstenaar** » Tue Jul 31, 2001 12:20 am

First: ignore the debate on the historical significance of fighting with a weapon in each hand. All points of view pro/against are based on conjecture.

Second: Slow pell work. Train your left hand to copy the movements of your right. Pay attention to how your wrist and hand move. Concentrate on making sure you are not hitting flat. Slow work insures improved muscle memory.
Next, learn to deflect blows, rather than only use static blocks. Deflecting your opponents shot often opens them up for counter shots. Learning to block is most important part of fighting with two weapons. And for Vitus's peace of mind, try not to learn to block with your hands.

Next, practice the same fakes with the left, that you know with the right. If you don't have some fakes, get some.
Last, and I agree with the above very much on this, try fighting with your left hand only. I agree with Sarnac, put a shield on your right arm. This will help get you out of being tempted into only firing wimpy wrist shots.

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Sir David deKunstenaar
Midrealm, House Erine Torr

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Wed Aug 01, 2001 8:13 am

Sir David is obviously trying to emphisize his point!!!

David deKunstenaar · Post by **David deKunstenaar** » Wed Aug 01, 2001 7:54 pm

YEA, that the server thats runs this list was so busy that I kept getting a message that I should try again later. So I kept pushing the send button again. Does make me feel a little foolish to see it over and over and over.

I simply need to go back to drinking coffee until 3 am again.

David

Cedric · Post by **Cedric** » Thu Aug 02, 2001 8:58 am

Course, you could always figure out what that Delete Post button is doing up there and then no-one would ever have to know...

David deKunstenaar · Post by **David deKunstenaar** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 8:00 am

Cedric

Course, you could always figure out what that Delete Post button is doing up there and then no-one would ever have to know...

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Oh the power, the power ... now the rest of these post look even more like I'm on drugs.
Or off my medication.
David

sarnac · Post by **sarnac** » Fri Aug 03, 2001 8:05 am

Of course now my post makes no f-ing sense at all as well!!!
Thanks again Sir David!!!