Brass rivets on shiny steel

Halbrust · Post by **Halbrust** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:11 pm

I'm picturing in my head the idea of brass rivets on stainless armour.

Or I should really say, "yellow" rivets on mirror silver armour.

Anybody have pictures of such? Historical or not. Helmets preferred, but I'll take what you got.

Jestyr · Post by **Jestyr** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:22 pm

Check out Windrose. They use that combo a lot.

Owyn · Post by **Owyn** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:45 pm

Just keep in mind that if it's for SCA (not sure from your post) that the requirement is for "iron or steel rivets no more than 2 1/2 inches apart or the equivalent". So you need to be careful with brass rivets, since they either need to be "equivalent" to the steel (not sure how to make that happen - maybe an experienced armorer can chime in here - closer together?) or only in decorative, non-structural spots.

Halbrust · Post by **Halbrust** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:46 pm

Thanks Jestyr! Windrose does have many examples of it.

Looking through their site I like the looks of the brass on black a lot more than the brass on stainless. It "pops" WAY more. Any suggestions to get that to happen on stainless?

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:02 pm

Here is a link to a discussion about brass capped steel rivets.

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... p?t=100180

It contains my procedure for doing it.

Mac

Broadway · Post by **Broadway** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 7:10 pm

Owyn wrote:Just keep in mind that if it's for SCA (not sure from your post) that the requirement is for "iron or steel rivets no more than 2 1/2 inches apart or the equivalent". So you need to be careful with brass rivets, since they either need to be "equivalent" to the steel (not sure how to make that happen - maybe an experienced armorer can chime in here - closer together?) or only in decorative, non-structural spots.

In helmets.

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:35 pm

Closer rivet spacing would give the "or the equivalent," but you're none the worse off for incorporating steel rivets into your design along with the brass ones as marshal pacifiers. If you'd rather they did not appear to the eye, there is always using flush riveting and finishing them down smooth.

Or structural welding; someone will suggest that. This of course means getting someone with the means to weld stainless.

Enough brass rivets would give the desired strength -- hey, one-inch spacing and double rows, staggered. It is well known that many small fasteners holding something together (goes for bolts and rivets) is stronger than fewer larger fasteners. I think a few people have built helms with myriad 1/8" brass rivets studding their skulls like raindrops. Fun enough if you care to spend the time peining. With a very large number of fasteners you've got a whole lot of redundancy if one rivet starts to loosen. I don't think I've ever seen that happen in a helmet skull where the rivet was properly upset and peined, though, regardless of rivet material.

Broadway and Owyn are correct to note the SCA Armor Standard on rivet spacing applies only to helmets, which are what you're thinking about anyway. Everywhere else, you are much more at liberty.

Try searching the Archive on "blacken stainless" and see what you come up with. Yes, gold on black is very snazzy. In mild steel, a few have blued it, though of course they suffer the expected agonies when the blueing gets scratched up -- SS blackening runs more durable, I believe?

The kula-khuds pic you came up with for your "Veil style mail drape on a helmet" thread looks SCA-legal enough to me, but if you were trying to forestall an itchy Knight's-Marshal, you might double up the number of brass rivets being used. The very best way to accomplish this is to have a talk with your local KM, and he may advise you, and maybe even consult with your Kingdom Earl Marshal.

And there is the matter of just how many pounds of brass rivets you wish to afford!

Mac · Post by **Mac** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:14 pm

Mac wrote:Here is a link to a discussion about brass capped steel rivets.

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... p?t=100180

It contains my procedure for doing it.

Mac

It's really not very hard to put brass caps on steel rivets. It is also the authentic thing to do. One does not see solid brass rivets in authentic armor until the seventeenth century; and even then, I don't think whey were used in structural contexts.

Mac

Halbrust · Post by **Halbrust** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:40 pm

Mac, I'll definately read your tutorial and thanks for the input.

The Iron Dwarf · Post by **The Iron Dwarf** » Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:37 pm

I have thousands of flat headed solid brass rivets here if someone wants to try it, am happy to send a few samples for free

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:48 pm

We are talking sending 'em across the pond here, I-Dwarf. Halbrust is somewhere in the States.

Halbrust · Post by **Halbrust** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:33 pm

I am? No, I am.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 7:22 pm

I think brass on shiny is OK, but it does look better against black or blue.

What would look cool is... black rivets on shiny. :wink:

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:14 pm

Halbrust wrote:I am? No, I am.

This month, anyway?

Halbrust · Post by **Halbrust** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:23 pm

Halberds wrote:I think brass on shiny is OK, but it does look better against black or blue.

What would look cool is... black rivets on shiny.

Black rivets? I like the idea!

Now, how to achieve it... Wroght iron rivets?

Konstantin the Red · Post by **Konstantin the Red** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:27 pm

Paint or powdercoat, and a lead block to hold the head while you pein the shank.

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:30 pm

Perhaps carefully gun bluing the finished rivets without getting any on the helm.

Mask it off with thoes old round paper sticker notebook things then brush the chemical blue with a water color brush?

I don't know... I have heat blued rivets before installing them before.
And yes... I used a Tin/Lead Alloy anvil to cradle the heads.
Worked for me. :wink:

Hal