Left-handed heater
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Sevrin le Sanguine
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Left-handed heater
Are their any lefties using heater shields on the board? I'd like to chat about stance and technique.
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Steiner of Iron Mountain
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Diglach Mac Cein
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Sevrin le Sanguine
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I've been considering a switch to center grip round, since I've just authorized and still very much at the beginning of my fighting career.
It sounds corny, but I really like the heater is in period for me (14th cent France) and I like the way it looks.
I've adopted a T stance, where my swordside leg is behind and perpendicular to my swordside leg. This seems to minimize the swordside leg and body shots.
I'm not taking many shots on the shieldside head any more, which is nice. However, sometimes I open up a slot down the middle because I don't get the shield far enough to swordside.
I am hoping to open a discussion about the relative merits of various shield types for the left-handed fighter.
It sounds corny, but I really like the heater is in period for me (14th cent France) and I like the way it looks.
I've adopted a T stance, where my swordside leg is behind and perpendicular to my swordside leg. This seems to minimize the swordside leg and body shots.
I'm not taking many shots on the shieldside head any more, which is nice. However, sometimes I open up a slot down the middle because I don't get the shield far enough to swordside.
I am hoping to open a discussion about the relative merits of various shield types for the left-handed fighter.
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Sevrin le Sanguine
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I learned how to fight with a heater, though when I moved to Caid I was drilled with a 24" round shield. That style forced me to adopt an A-Frame style out of the need to protect my side.
I still, out of drilled habit, shift my stance with my shield out more to my left side and sword in the classic A-Fframe style. I also move the heater the same as I would a round, freeing my sword up for counter strikes.
It has been some time since I have fought with a heater and have to get used to it again. I think I'll have some problems lifting my shield too low to cover my leg, opening my head for shots.
I still, out of drilled habit, shift my stance with my shield out more to my left side and sword in the classic A-Fframe style. I also move the heater the same as I would a round, freeing my sword up for counter strikes.
It has been some time since I have fought with a heater and have to get used to it again. I think I'll have some problems lifting my shield too low to cover my leg, opening my head for shots.
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Sevrin le Sanguine
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Chretien le Meunier
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I am southpaw and use a heater, not sure how much I can contribute.
However, I've found the sheer pain in the ass factor will help right off the bat, I always get groans from rightys on how they don't like fighting us. (from what I've expierenced anyway)
Fighting another lefty is fun, and I always keep my shield edge straight tward them, holding my arm out tward them as opposed to across my body when fighting a righty.
This method seems to work, and quite honestly I am more comfortable holding the sheild this way, but it would be renderd usless against a righty, as you are in essence opening up everything to them.
As far as mthods of shield work, not sure how it differs much from rightys, I am sure there are nuiances, but they are beyond my spectrum of expertise at the time, but I've shared what I know.
------------------
Sic splendide haec ardet-
Tristan Graethorne,
Shire of Owls Reste, Southern Region,
Great Kingdom of the East
However, I've found the sheer pain in the ass factor will help right off the bat, I always get groans from rightys on how they don't like fighting us. (from what I've expierenced anyway)
Fighting another lefty is fun, and I always keep my shield edge straight tward them, holding my arm out tward them as opposed to across my body when fighting a righty.
This method seems to work, and quite honestly I am more comfortable holding the sheild this way, but it would be renderd usless against a righty, as you are in essence opening up everything to them.
As far as mthods of shield work, not sure how it differs much from rightys, I am sure there are nuiances, but they are beyond my spectrum of expertise at the time, but I've shared what I know.
------------------
Sic splendide haec ardet-
Tristan Graethorne,
Shire of Owls Reste, Southern Region,
Great Kingdom of the East
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Sevrin le Sanguine
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I end up turn my body so that it's sideways to the righty, with the heater tabled about 45 degrees toward swordside.
I cover up my left eye with the point. If the shield is far enough swordside, it's a decent static defense. It's easy to forget to stay covered when throwing shots, though. I tend to open up the shield to shieldside, and get clocked with a down-the-middle shot.
I cover up my left eye with the point. If the shield is far enough swordside, it's a decent static defense. It's easy to forget to stay covered when throwing shots, though. I tend to open up the shield to shieldside, and get clocked with a down-the-middle shot.
The A-Frame is set up as it is stated, in an A set up. You sword basket is roughly set at hip level, with your sword angled so that the mid and tip is guarding your helm. The shield is set so that the inside edge is at a 45 degree angle. Your line of vision is down the inside edge at the corner. You angle your body so that the opening is not square to your body.
This style has worked well for me so far, as it take little movement to guard your body and head.
This style
This style has worked well for me so far, as it take little movement to guard your body and head.
This style
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FrauHirsch
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Sevrin le Sanguine:
Are their any lefties using heater shields on the board? I'd like to chat about stance and technique.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not a lefty, but my husband is a lefty Knight. He is mostly two sword, but alternately fights round shield. He found a period picture of a center grip heater with boss and is going to try that. I think the mix of heater and center boss will be a good match for his style.
I don't mind fighting lefties, but I'm rather used to it
Juliana
Are their any lefties using heater shields on the board? I'd like to chat about stance and technique.</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm not a lefty, but my husband is a lefty Knight. He is mostly two sword, but alternately fights round shield. He found a period picture of a center grip heater with boss and is going to try that. I think the mix of heater and center boss will be a good match for his style.
I don't mind fighting lefties, but I'm rather used to it
Juliana
I too am one of the growing horde of Evil mutant Lefties. And I like it. I learned to fight with a kite, but I've recently switched to a heater, and it rocks. I Keep my Left leg pulled back in T-style fighting stance. Shield across my body, with the point of the shield, just on the inside of my Right leg. This is bait, Usually right handers will go for any opening on us EML's that they can find, which leaves a great opening for testing the padding in their helms or seeiing just how high the kidney belt REALLY protects.
Oh, and invest in a Aluminum Blank, well worth the investment, and not nearly as heavy as a wood shield.
My 2 Dinars,
Aaron
Oh, and invest in a Aluminum Blank, well worth the investment, and not nearly as heavy as a wood shield.
My 2 Dinars,
Aaron
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Armourkris
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- Location: vancouver, BC.
I'm ambidextrious.
bugs the hell outa people.
i dont fight heater much, use a centergrip oval mostly(much more fun to switch right handed to left handed half way through a bout, non sca that is)
BUT, when i do fight lefty heater i find that when i fight a right hander my shield doesnt get used very much at all, seeing as how it is blocking mostly the thield side on them, so i tend to keep my sword leaning at about 45 degrees towards them, pommel at hip height, and use more footwork than anything, i quick dart in the right directing and they dont hit much, else i parry with the sword.
another thing that i find works well against an Aframe position is (poorley described here) slapping their sword blade out of the way and using the motion to start the windup into your shot, when they try to cock their blade back into position it ends up guiding your blade into them.
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What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee:
bugs the hell outa people.
i dont fight heater much, use a centergrip oval mostly(much more fun to switch right handed to left handed half way through a bout, non sca that is)
BUT, when i do fight lefty heater i find that when i fight a right hander my shield doesnt get used very much at all, seeing as how it is blocking mostly the thield side on them, so i tend to keep my sword leaning at about 45 degrees towards them, pommel at hip height, and use more footwork than anything, i quick dart in the right directing and they dont hit much, else i parry with the sword.
another thing that i find works well against an Aframe position is (poorley described here) slapping their sword blade out of the way and using the motion to start the windup into your shot, when they try to cock their blade back into position it ends up guiding your blade into them.
------------------
What, drawn, and talk of peace! I hate the word, As I hate hell, all Montagues, and thee:
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Sevrin le Sanguine
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OK, I'm not left-handed. But fighting left-handed fighters is a lot like being left-handed, and I've got a fair bit of experience with that. You don't know me from Adam, so you may make of my comments what you will, but:
Any stance that takes your most balanced, or neutral, position (what I term the "zero point" of your stance) off its optimal orientation weakens your fighting platform. The most balanced position can best be generalized by the stance from which you can move forward, backward, left, or right with the least amount of transition between directions. The optimal orientation is, for the most part, where your centerline -- the imaginary line perpendicular to the line of your shoulders -- points at either your opponent's center of mass (maximum attack orientation) or at their weapon (maximum defense orientation). Note the difference is only a matter of a few inches, but it is a significant subtlety, nonetheless. For lefties, the most common orientation taken is on the weapon (maximum defense), since the "windows of opportunity" through which you can be struck are more numerous. Please refer to the (apologetically) rough sketch at:
http://www.mackenzieresearch.com/jay/SCA/stance1.jpg
Even before you start to focus on orientation, though, you should be certain of your basic stance. If you are standing in anything more than a comfortable, equally balanced stance (compensating for the added mass of shield and sword), then you have given up some opportunity at movement or power generation. If by "T-stance" you are orienting your shield foot perpindicular to the line of your sword foot, you have stolen power and movement from your fighting platform. These comprimises may be desirable at a given moment, but it is not something you want to start with. For newer fighters, a more balanced stance is preferred -- one where the center of mass and the center of rotation are on the same axis. The seven rules of stance that I use to accomplish this are:
1) Feet more than shoulder-width apart
and parallel (like standing on railroad
tracks)
2) Weight on the balls of your feet (heels
down, but as if you can slide a piece of
paper under them -- no weight, no
commitment)
3) Knees loose (but not bent)
4) "Sitting" (hip orientation as if you have
just started to sit down, but not jutting
forward)
5) Back straight
6) Shoulder back
7) Head up and eyes forward
And now on to a couple of comments about A-Frame fighting and ambidexterity.
The A-frame stance is a response to a particular fighting 'prejudice' in the areas in which it is popular. It is inherently a weak stance offensively, relying on the opponent to waste their attacks on the static defense of the presented blade. Most shots coming out of this stance will be looping wraps ("grasscutters"). The fighter is exclusively a "reaction" fighter, unable to initiate their own attacks without first coming out of this position. Sitting outside of real range, sniping at their guards (especially the low sword), will often draw them out of this position as they try to initiate a first offensive. This is where you want to launch your real attack -- in the transition out of the A-frame and into a more offensive posture (a stance they are usually not as good at). A stronger beginning stance would be to keep the sword cocked and behind the head, using the shield for the primary defense and "counter" throwing with "directed" wraps (straight-line arm, rather than looping, roundhouse blows) and off-side head shots. A common, secondary stance is to rest the sword on the shoulder, which still allows for offensive first strikes while making the active sword-block a little less challenging (not as far to pull the sword down into the block).
Regarding ambidexterity, I've trained and fought a lot of fighters over the years that claimed equal-handedness. Despite such claims, every fighter I've met so far appears to have a "strong" hand and a "weak" hand. If it isn't obvious by their weapons form (two-sword or great weapon), it is often exhibited by their stance (which foot is forward) or their grip (which hand is high). I have met exactly one who -- while not actually claiming to be ambidexterous -- was genuinely effective with both hands (while using a shield on the other), though even he still had a "better" hand.
New fighers who feel they are equally capable should still be encouraged to stay with one "dominant" hand for at least the first year or two. There is enough motor training and "fight awareness" going on that constant switching seems to just slow down their progress, rather than bring any real benefit to their fight. I have yet to meet a fighter who, determined to exhibit from the beginning their special talent, has progressed much beyond being an average fighter (if they stayed with the sport at all).
Well, that should get a rise out of few people now, shouldn't it *g*... -c-
Any stance that takes your most balanced, or neutral, position (what I term the "zero point" of your stance) off its optimal orientation weakens your fighting platform. The most balanced position can best be generalized by the stance from which you can move forward, backward, left, or right with the least amount of transition between directions. The optimal orientation is, for the most part, where your centerline -- the imaginary line perpendicular to the line of your shoulders -- points at either your opponent's center of mass (maximum attack orientation) or at their weapon (maximum defense orientation). Note the difference is only a matter of a few inches, but it is a significant subtlety, nonetheless. For lefties, the most common orientation taken is on the weapon (maximum defense), since the "windows of opportunity" through which you can be struck are more numerous. Please refer to the (apologetically) rough sketch at:
http://www.mackenzieresearch.com/jay/SCA/stance1.jpg
Even before you start to focus on orientation, though, you should be certain of your basic stance. If you are standing in anything more than a comfortable, equally balanced stance (compensating for the added mass of shield and sword), then you have given up some opportunity at movement or power generation. If by "T-stance" you are orienting your shield foot perpindicular to the line of your sword foot, you have stolen power and movement from your fighting platform. These comprimises may be desirable at a given moment, but it is not something you want to start with. For newer fighters, a more balanced stance is preferred -- one where the center of mass and the center of rotation are on the same axis. The seven rules of stance that I use to accomplish this are:
1) Feet more than shoulder-width apart
and parallel (like standing on railroad
tracks)
2) Weight on the balls of your feet (heels
down, but as if you can slide a piece of
paper under them -- no weight, no
commitment)
3) Knees loose (but not bent)
4) "Sitting" (hip orientation as if you have
just started to sit down, but not jutting
forward)
5) Back straight
6) Shoulder back
7) Head up and eyes forward
And now on to a couple of comments about A-Frame fighting and ambidexterity.
The A-frame stance is a response to a particular fighting 'prejudice' in the areas in which it is popular. It is inherently a weak stance offensively, relying on the opponent to waste their attacks on the static defense of the presented blade. Most shots coming out of this stance will be looping wraps ("grasscutters"). The fighter is exclusively a "reaction" fighter, unable to initiate their own attacks without first coming out of this position. Sitting outside of real range, sniping at their guards (especially the low sword), will often draw them out of this position as they try to initiate a first offensive. This is where you want to launch your real attack -- in the transition out of the A-frame and into a more offensive posture (a stance they are usually not as good at). A stronger beginning stance would be to keep the sword cocked and behind the head, using the shield for the primary defense and "counter" throwing with "directed" wraps (straight-line arm, rather than looping, roundhouse blows) and off-side head shots. A common, secondary stance is to rest the sword on the shoulder, which still allows for offensive first strikes while making the active sword-block a little less challenging (not as far to pull the sword down into the block).
Regarding ambidexterity, I've trained and fought a lot of fighters over the years that claimed equal-handedness. Despite such claims, every fighter I've met so far appears to have a "strong" hand and a "weak" hand. If it isn't obvious by their weapons form (two-sword or great weapon), it is often exhibited by their stance (which foot is forward) or their grip (which hand is high). I have met exactly one who -- while not actually claiming to be ambidexterous -- was genuinely effective with both hands (while using a shield on the other), though even he still had a "better" hand.
New fighers who feel they are equally capable should still be encouraged to stay with one "dominant" hand for at least the first year or two. There is enough motor training and "fight awareness" going on that constant switching seems to just slow down their progress, rather than bring any real benefit to their fight. I have yet to meet a fighter who, determined to exhibit from the beginning their special talent, has progressed much beyond being an average fighter (if they stayed with the sport at all).
Well, that should get a rise out of few people now, shouldn't it *g*... -c-
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Diglach Mac Cein
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- Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 1:01 am
For what it's worth -
Stance -
A pure "T" stance is not the best stance to take IMO, as it limits your body's ability to twist with a shot - this is critical to speed and power, especially in the offside shots that are a lefty's bread and butter.
This sounds odd, but try it - Jump straight up and land in a comfortable balanced postion, with your shield foot pointed toward the "opponent". Your sword leg should be off to one side of the "T" line a bit, and if your shield foot points right at your opponent, the back foot should be a a less than 90 degree angle - You need to be comfortable, and able to shift your wieght and twist freely at the waist.
Equipment -
I strap my heater different from most righties - my hand grip is several inches back and down from the norm - 4" - 6" inches from the top corner, on the diagonal - read further and it will make sense...
Thrust tip - Get one. In the Midrealm, it's supposed to be a distinctly different color from the blade edge. I use a big contrast in color (and have used flourescent orange) - A lefty has, or can create, several thust lines against a right handed sword and shield fighter. Becuase of this, they tend to over-react to it. I would put a flashing light on the tip of the sword if they would let me...
Shield / sword position -
I fight a modified A Frame, and am hardly a "reactive" fighter. The modification is mostly in my shield position. Becuase of the way my shield is strapped, I present a much larger portion of my shield face to the opponent without squaring it across my body. It is really a slight change to a round shield (strapped, not center-grip) stance. I point the lead edge of my shield towrd my opponent's sword shoulder, and look back over that corner. (I hope this makes sense) This forces my opponent to work around a lot more shield than they usually do. Thrusts can be pretty diffcult for them. When they throw offside to my head, a small shrug of the shoulder rotates enough of that corner up to block, unless they are much taller than I am (I am 6'2 1/2", use a 26" wide by 28" tall shield) Leg blocks are a knee bend, and block for the thrust and on-side shots are a twist. I really only move my shield arm for "reaction" blocks off combos or fakes.
This shield position also is good for shield presses and to a lesser degree snatches.
My sword is held with the hand about heart high, maybe a little lower. Blade oriented straight up, maybe tilted a little toward my head. Becuase of my stance and shield position, my opponents often can't see my sword hand at all. Becase of this, body mechanics are VITAL. You must twist/torque the body on shots to generate speed and power, especially for the offside blows to the head. Learn to use you weight mechanics, and you'll literally "wind and unwind" through blows - your combos will have a lot of speed and power, especially going on-side to offside.
Thrust - USE IT!!!
Good blows to put into your arsenal - Not a comprhensive list, but this is a good basic shot selection -
*Straight lead leg (it is often open)
*Thumb lead to lead leg (slight change in angle is tough for oppoenet to pick up on - especially if you throw 1 straight, they block, and you double ot a thumb lead)
*Straight to BACK LEG
*Step out shot either leg
*Slot to head/chest
*Straight head shot (you would be surprised)
*Thrust (Body and face)
*Shot to opponent's forearm (especially if THEY fight A frame of cross block a lot)
*Off-side head.
*Off-side head.
*Off-side head.
Psychology -
Your best weapon is a right-handed opponent's own training. If I don't beatan opponent in the first 3 shots, I start dragging the fight out. Why? Their muscle memory - Unless they fight a LOT of lefties, you make them change their stance/guard, especially shield position and often hip placement, to pull it out of the line of fire. This won't feel "right" to them. And if they aren't doing something comfortable, they have to think about it - which gives you an edge. Tht's why I make sure they know I have a thrust tip - many people will adust their stance even more than they need when they think you'll tickle their ribs with the point - and open up the off-side head.
And muscle memory is a stern mistress - many of my opponents will fade back into a guard against a right-handed opponent after they throw a few blows, and never realize it - the less experienced ones START in the wrong guard. Game over.
All of this only works if you use the mechanic properly - PRACTICE, don't spar - I have been fighting this way about 12 years, and still spend most of practice at 50 - 75% of full speed. And I win most of my bouts with simple "leg-step in-head" kills.
Last - HAVE FUN. If you aren't having fun, stop for a while.
Best advice I was ever given -
Stance -
A pure "T" stance is not the best stance to take IMO, as it limits your body's ability to twist with a shot - this is critical to speed and power, especially in the offside shots that are a lefty's bread and butter.
This sounds odd, but try it - Jump straight up and land in a comfortable balanced postion, with your shield foot pointed toward the "opponent". Your sword leg should be off to one side of the "T" line a bit, and if your shield foot points right at your opponent, the back foot should be a a less than 90 degree angle - You need to be comfortable, and able to shift your wieght and twist freely at the waist.
Equipment -
I strap my heater different from most righties - my hand grip is several inches back and down from the norm - 4" - 6" inches from the top corner, on the diagonal - read further and it will make sense...
Thrust tip - Get one. In the Midrealm, it's supposed to be a distinctly different color from the blade edge. I use a big contrast in color (and have used flourescent orange) - A lefty has, or can create, several thust lines against a right handed sword and shield fighter. Becuase of this, they tend to over-react to it. I would put a flashing light on the tip of the sword if they would let me...
Shield / sword position -
I fight a modified A Frame, and am hardly a "reactive" fighter. The modification is mostly in my shield position. Becuase of the way my shield is strapped, I present a much larger portion of my shield face to the opponent without squaring it across my body. It is really a slight change to a round shield (strapped, not center-grip) stance. I point the lead edge of my shield towrd my opponent's sword shoulder, and look back over that corner. (I hope this makes sense) This forces my opponent to work around a lot more shield than they usually do. Thrusts can be pretty diffcult for them. When they throw offside to my head, a small shrug of the shoulder rotates enough of that corner up to block, unless they are much taller than I am (I am 6'2 1/2", use a 26" wide by 28" tall shield) Leg blocks are a knee bend, and block for the thrust and on-side shots are a twist. I really only move my shield arm for "reaction" blocks off combos or fakes.
This shield position also is good for shield presses and to a lesser degree snatches.
My sword is held with the hand about heart high, maybe a little lower. Blade oriented straight up, maybe tilted a little toward my head. Becuase of my stance and shield position, my opponents often can't see my sword hand at all. Becase of this, body mechanics are VITAL. You must twist/torque the body on shots to generate speed and power, especially for the offside blows to the head. Learn to use you weight mechanics, and you'll literally "wind and unwind" through blows - your combos will have a lot of speed and power, especially going on-side to offside.
Thrust - USE IT!!!
Good blows to put into your arsenal - Not a comprhensive list, but this is a good basic shot selection -
*Straight lead leg (it is often open)
*Thumb lead to lead leg (slight change in angle is tough for oppoenet to pick up on - especially if you throw 1 straight, they block, and you double ot a thumb lead)
*Straight to BACK LEG
*Step out shot either leg
*Slot to head/chest
*Straight head shot (you would be surprised)
*Thrust (Body and face)
*Shot to opponent's forearm (especially if THEY fight A frame of cross block a lot)
*Off-side head.
*Off-side head.
*Off-side head.
Psychology -
Your best weapon is a right-handed opponent's own training. If I don't beatan opponent in the first 3 shots, I start dragging the fight out. Why? Their muscle memory - Unless they fight a LOT of lefties, you make them change their stance/guard, especially shield position and often hip placement, to pull it out of the line of fire. This won't feel "right" to them. And if they aren't doing something comfortable, they have to think about it - which gives you an edge. Tht's why I make sure they know I have a thrust tip - many people will adust their stance even more than they need when they think you'll tickle their ribs with the point - and open up the off-side head.
And muscle memory is a stern mistress - many of my opponents will fade back into a guard against a right-handed opponent after they throw a few blows, and never realize it - the less experienced ones START in the wrong guard. Game over.
All of this only works if you use the mechanic properly - PRACTICE, don't spar - I have been fighting this way about 12 years, and still spend most of practice at 50 - 75% of full speed. And I win most of my bouts with simple "leg-step in-head" kills.
Last - HAVE FUN. If you aren't having fun, stop for a while.
Best advice I was ever given -
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Sevrin le Sanguine
- New Member
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 2:01 am
- Location: Bloomington, IN
Gentles -
Thank you for the great discussion.
I would like to guide the talk in a certain direction. Does you have thoughts about heater versus center grip round?
I have a center grip round in my garage that I'm having trouble finishing -- not because I can't physically perform the work, but for another reason.
I've only been fighting a few months, and I started with heater. I'm just getting a good stance and body awareness happening, and I feel it might be detrimental to switch to a different shield style at this point.
It seems that a lot of people have bad things to say about the heater shield. I wonder if this is because they never learned how to use it, or if there is something inherent in the style that does not translate to SCA combat. The heater is intended for horseback fighting, isn't it?
Thank you for the great discussion.
I would like to guide the talk in a certain direction. Does you have thoughts about heater versus center grip round?
I have a center grip round in my garage that I'm having trouble finishing -- not because I can't physically perform the work, but for another reason.
I've only been fighting a few months, and I started with heater. I'm just getting a good stance and body awareness happening, and I feel it might be detrimental to switch to a different shield style at this point.
It seems that a lot of people have bad things to say about the heater shield. I wonder if this is because they never learned how to use it, or if there is something inherent in the style that does not translate to SCA combat. The heater is intended for horseback fighting, isn't it?
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Jean Richard Malcolmson
- Archive Member
- Posts: 1138
- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 2:01 am
- Location: Whitehouse, TX, USA
Being from Ansteorra (the land of the Barn Door shield), I use a 2' x 3' square. I keep my right foot pointed at my opponent and my left back and perpendicular to my opponent. My shield is square to my opponent and my left shoulder is back and my sword is up near my left ear. I block most shots to the head with my sword (Not my basket hilt).
Regards,
Jean Richard
Regards,
Jean Richard
Can anybody tell that Jean started fighting when Ansteorra sand was still big rocks that they had to grind down every day before they could fight *grin*? Still, its good to know that all the dinasaurs haven't become extinct, though we should round up the remainder and put them in a proper museum where they belong, don't you think *beg*??
-cheval-
-cheval-
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Diglach Mac Cein
- Archive Member
- Posts: 14071
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As a lefty, I fight both center grip and heater, and IMO here are the biggest differences -
1) The heater's corners offer a bit more in terms of static defense, especially for the offside head and drop leg shot. The center grip requires a more active bocking style.
2) The center grip is better vs. thrust attacks, with the only vunerable spot being the face or a chest thrust from above the top edge (assuming you are using a 26 - 28" round).
3) Most shield snatches are easier with a heater. I find shield presses different with one than the other, but not inhierently easier one or the other.
4) Shield snatches and hooks (in melee especially) are easier to resist with a heater. Center grips make use "slip" the hooks off, which leave you venerable for a second.
5) IMO, my offense is a little more opened up with the center grip, mostly because it is easier to get the shield "out of my own way", if you get my meaning. Trade of is you can make yourself more vunerable when you do it.
My adivce - pick the one that attracts you the most, and stick with it for several YEARS before you switch back and forth - they are very different style physically, mentally and strategiclly.
1) The heater's corners offer a bit more in terms of static defense, especially for the offside head and drop leg shot. The center grip requires a more active bocking style.
2) The center grip is better vs. thrust attacks, with the only vunerable spot being the face or a chest thrust from above the top edge (assuming you are using a 26 - 28" round).
3) Most shield snatches are easier with a heater. I find shield presses different with one than the other, but not inhierently easier one or the other.
4) Shield snatches and hooks (in melee especially) are easier to resist with a heater. Center grips make use "slip" the hooks off, which leave you venerable for a second.
5) IMO, my offense is a little more opened up with the center grip, mostly because it is easier to get the shield "out of my own way", if you get my meaning. Trade of is you can make yourself more vunerable when you do it.
My adivce - pick the one that attracts you the most, and stick with it for several YEARS before you switch back and forth - they are very different style physically, mentally and strategiclly.
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Sevrin le Sanguine
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- Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2001 2:01 am
- Location: Bloomington, IN
I'm confused -- which side is offside when you refer to a shot? Is that a shot that is on my shieldside (i.e. not a flat snap, but a shot to the other side)?
Also, how do you perform a shield snatch?
Irish-> I agree about sticking with a style for a long enough time to get proficient. I started building a center grip, and something subconscious kept holding me back. I think it was knowing that I need to stick with heater for a while; switching up would impede my progress.
I do want to pick up a secondary style, however, just so I can have a break from sword and shield. I think I shall learn bastard sword.
Also, how do you perform a shield snatch?
Irish-> I agree about sticking with a style for a long enough time to get proficient. I started building a center grip, and something subconscious kept holding me back. I think it was knowing that I need to stick with heater for a while; switching up would impede my progress.
I do want to pick up a secondary style, however, just so I can have a break from sword and shield. I think I shall learn bastard sword.
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Diglach Mac Cein
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As a lefty, the offside is a shot that strikes to YOUR right side on the opponent. About 75% of the time this is a head shot. The "flat snap" across the edge of an opponent's shield into his face (usually eyslot high) is on blow of this type.
I also reccomend trying EVERY weapon form, and authorize in them. IMO, having the basics in a weapon form will give you a better idea on how to fight against it - learing how the weapon handles, the angles of defense and attack it presents, etc.
I also reccomend trying EVERY weapon form, and authorize in them. IMO, having the basics in a weapon form will give you a better idea on how to fight against it - learing how the weapon handles, the angles of defense and attack it presents, etc.
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Guest
i am also an EML that fights with a heater. i use a slightly less sideways T-stance that allows me to put more hip into my shots.
i hold my shield so that it covers my body and put the point just inside my right knee. i hold my sword along the top of my shield to cover my face. suprisingly it doesn't interfere with throwing shots that bad and has proven to be less stressful on my left elbow. i block head shots with the sword and block body and leg shots primarily by turning my body or stepping out of the way.
against righties i make most of my kills with either a decending offside head shot that drops in behind their shield or i hit them right below the armpit with a pretty standard onside shot or a shallow body wrap. the onside shot is usually a counter shot if they lift their shield when they throw a shot(amazing how many righties do this).
the best advice on fighting left handed S&S has been from the current outlands king (HRM Maelgwn). He stresses being mobile ,never getting into a static engagement with anyone if your a lefty, and keep your face covered.
i hold my shield so that it covers my body and put the point just inside my right knee. i hold my sword along the top of my shield to cover my face. suprisingly it doesn't interfere with throwing shots that bad and has proven to be less stressful on my left elbow. i block head shots with the sword and block body and leg shots primarily by turning my body or stepping out of the way.
against righties i make most of my kills with either a decending offside head shot that drops in behind their shield or i hit them right below the armpit with a pretty standard onside shot or a shallow body wrap. the onside shot is usually a counter shot if they lift their shield when they throw a shot(amazing how many righties do this).
the best advice on fighting left handed S&S has been from the current outlands king (HRM Maelgwn). He stresses being mobile ,never getting into a static engagement with anyone if your a lefty, and keep your face covered.
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Guest
Question: I just finished my heater, using the local measurements/placement for the arm. I have found that the most comfortable and defensive position is having the right point of the shield at eye level, protecting my head. Does anyone use a heater in the same method?
I think it comes from my style with a round shield but seems to work well with me.
I think it comes from my style with a round shield but seems to work well with me.
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Diglach Mac Cein
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Jean Richard Malcolmson
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- Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2001 2:01 am
- Location: Whitehouse, TX, USA
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by cheval:
<B>Can anybody tell that Jean started fighting when Ansteorra sand was still big rocks that they had to grind down every day before they could fight *grin*? Still, its good to know that all the dinasaurs haven't become extinct, though we should round up the remainder and put them in a proper museum where they belong, don't you think *beg*??
-cheval-</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Cheval, You're kinda right and kinda wrong. I am a dinosaur, in that I did start fighting about 22 years ago as a right hander with the closed stance. This evolved to an open stance in the mid 80's. However, I did not begin fighting left handed until 1991 when my knight (Duke Patrick Michael Gordone) and our sensei (Duke Sigmund the Wingfooted) realized that I wrote left handed. So my current style is only 11 years old. (Only 11 Years!! Time flies. I just realized that I probably am close to qualifying as a lefty dino also.)
Regards,
oldfartmutantleftymuseumbounddinoduke
<B>Can anybody tell that Jean started fighting when Ansteorra sand was still big rocks that they had to grind down every day before they could fight *grin*? Still, its good to know that all the dinasaurs haven't become extinct, though we should round up the remainder and put them in a proper museum where they belong, don't you think *beg*??
-cheval-</B></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Cheval, You're kinda right and kinda wrong. I am a dinosaur, in that I did start fighting about 22 years ago as a right hander with the closed stance. This evolved to an open stance in the mid 80's. However, I did not begin fighting left handed until 1991 when my knight (Duke Patrick Michael Gordone) and our sensei (Duke Sigmund the Wingfooted) realized that I wrote left handed. So my current style is only 11 years old. (Only 11 Years!! Time flies. I just realized that I probably am close to qualifying as a lefty dino also.)
Regards,
oldfartmutantleftymuseumbounddinoduke
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sarnac
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- Location: Windsor, ON, Canada
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Cheval-
I gotta disagree about the offensive capabilities of the A frame stance.
I use a modified A frame and I am a sniper but will jump in your boots as quick as can be if I can get inside.
I rarely throw wraps unless they rush me. Mostly its the offside head or flat snap to the right leg or inside left leg, or thrust down the middle or to the face...
I use the A frame because most of the offense of my opponent is coming to MY sword side so I need to establish my defense there to counter that.....but then again foot work is the key because I am not coming into range until I am ready to hit you and you arent ready for me...
I gotta disagree about the offensive capabilities of the A frame stance.
I use a modified A frame and I am a sniper but will jump in your boots as quick as can be if I can get inside.
I rarely throw wraps unless they rush me. Mostly its the offside head or flat snap to the right leg or inside left leg, or thrust down the middle or to the face...
I use the A frame because most of the offense of my opponent is coming to MY sword side so I need to establish my defense there to counter that.....but then again foot work is the key because I am not coming into range until I am ready to hit you and you arent ready for me...