Open and closed helms

Thomas of Tadcaster · Post by **Thomas of Tadcaster** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 1:23 pm

I think this was addressed earlier, but is the vision out of a closed helm too restrictive for sca combat, or any other type for that matter? I know they wore them into battle, so there must have been a reason, but does it transfer well into these "modern times"? Also does a visor over an "open" helm give more vision than a greathelm or the same?

schreiber · Post by **schreiber** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 1:38 pm

Vision is not so much a function of whether or not you're using a bargrill, which I think is the main question here, since nothing is going to beat the vision of a completely open helm.

The answer is "it depends". There are some bargrills out there that are frickin' horrible for vision, and there are some close helms that are beautiful. The biggest factor that I've seen is how close the vision slots are to your eyes.

Unfortunately, I've never done it, so I can't give you advice as to making a close helm.

HELMUT

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 2:08 pm

"The biggest factor that I've seen is how close the vision slots are to your eyes."

I agree. I bought a couple of pig-faced basinets (see http://www.forth-armoury.com/photo_gallery/Aventail/aventail.htm ) and they are terribly restrictive. The eye slots themselves are no bigger or smaller than your usual barrel helm. But they are so far away from your eyes that the effective angle of vision is quite small. To see the effect, make a circle with your thumb and forefinger and put it right in front of your eye. You can see everything, right? Now move your hand away from your eye - you'll see less and less. In a helm, moving the eyeslot a couple of inches away from your face can make a big difference. In the case of the above helm, I can't see anything coming up from below.

Steve

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Forth Armoury
The Riveted Maille Website!

marcidius · Post by **marcidius** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 4:59 pm

Yikes, you must take a lot of shots to the chin and throat! It's a nice helm, but it's at it's best once you've been legged

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-Let cry the skies to cleanse my soul, let weep the heavens to make me whole.

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 6:23 pm

I don't have a problem with either my close or my armet. The only thing that's any problem at all is if I fight a sword and madu or sword and spear guy...the lower thrust is hard to pick up and it's easier to belly or chest thrust me because I can't see it coming. But s/sh or great weapon or anything else, no problems as far as I'm concerned.

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"Be bold and mighty forces will come to your aid." -Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Morgan Buchanan
http://www.geocities.com/morgunnmac

Owen · Post by **Owen** » Wed Jan 02, 2002 6:37 pm

I wouldn't say "too restrictive", but I prefer my open face Roman. The bargrill is well designed, and I barely notice it. Much of the perference is being able to breath and hear, as well as seeing better.

I would have no trouble with having to count touches to my face, and would not switch to a closed helmet for the extra protection, except POSSIBLY for a Pas. Unfortunately, a closed face Roman helmet will set me back a LOT, so it ain't happening soon.

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Lurker · Post by **Lurker** » Mon Jan 07, 2002 9:22 pm

I use a closed face great helm when I fight, have since I started, and to be honest I prefer it to a badly designed bargrill any day. Sure, your field of vision isn't as open as with a bargrill, but the vision you do have is un-obstructed. Also, the vision slots are fairly close (1-2 inches from my sports glasses) allowing decent perifial(sp?) vision. Of course, having sight only in one eye, I"m at a disadvantage to begin with, so maybe I don't notice the restrictive-ness as much as others.

Paul