CoP + hip protection

Eltz-Kempenich · Post by **Eltz-Kempenich** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:31 am

Hey all! I wear a coat of plates and after sustaining a number of blows to my hips and pelvic bone recently, I decided that I really need to incorporate better low-torso defense into my kit. A particularly debilitating blow to my pelvic bone just above my buttocks really made up my mind for me. And this was through a heavily padded gambeson. My thighs are covered by padded cuisses, but this just isn't doing it for my hips. What kinds of suggestions might the AA have for me?

Are dag plates at the bottom effective at all? Has anyone had any success in adding more plates in a fashion similar to 15th C stuff, or in any fashion at all? I recall seeing a corrazina with 4 large plates that hang down for a fauld, rather than the usual hoops. Yeah, kinda grasping at straws here until. What do you fine Mafia folks do? Thanks.

hrolf · Post by **hrolf** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:39 am

maille!

Eltz-Kempenich · Post by **Eltz-Kempenich** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:55 am

Does mail seriously take that much of the punch out of blows? I tried wearing my stainless butted hauberk the other day at practice and it almost killed me... If decent riveted mail actually works, I may have to look at saving up for some.

GuntherofOrkney · Post by **GuntherofOrkney** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:31 am

just add leather panels hanging from the bottom of the cop(assuming its a vest type) then have horizontal plates/strips that overlap the next row of plates above and below it. like scales but really wide. this would offer alot of protection if made right and if its just not enough you can glue foam on the inside of it.

Brother Logan · Post by **Brother Logan** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:26 am

I wear a maille "skirt" with mine. I find that the maille really soaks up the blows but in a way that you can still fell the hit. I'll see if I have a pic.
Logan

Leikr · Post by **Leikr** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:34 am

Padded cuisses that extend up the leg and over the hips. That is what I do.

Lucian Ro · Post by **Lucian Ro** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:49 am

Brother Logan wrote:I wear a maille "skirt" with mine. I find that the maille really soaks up the blows but in a way that you can still fell the hit. I'll see if I have a pic.
Logan

Where are you buyng your, um ... skirts, Logan?

Cisco · Post by **Cisco** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:30 am

Personally, I've always thought faulds were incredibly protective if made out of rigid protection. The problem is that they are sometimes too effective.

If they are rigid (plastic, steel, hardened leather, etc.) and attached at the top only as they usually are, movement sometimes creates space between the fauld and you. And if someone hits your fauld firmly it'll feel like it 'bounces' off you sometimes as the fauld absorbs the hit via acceleration of the fauld (instead of a momentum transfer into you).

So yes, it's effective, sometimes too much so.

But try it out.

Personally, I'd suggest making your padded cuisses high enough (similar to a hockey girdle) or making the padded cuisses high enough and adding some rigid protection to them (they won't move away from your body).

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:55 am

My coat of plates extends to the top of my hips.

Under it I am wearing a lightly quilted arming coat that goes to mid-thigh, and a shirt of maille that goes to mid-thigh.

So far this seems to have provided adequate protection for my butt and hips.

My upper legs are protected by gamboised cuisses, which of course are under the drape of the maille shirt and arming coat.

I took a shot to the thigh last weekend that left a bruise, but nothing serious.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1 ... 0333373421

Steve

Josh W · Post by **Josh W** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:03 am

What Steve said.

the bottom plates of my coat of plates cover the tops of my hips.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2711/446 ... d967_o.jpg

Coupled with a mail skirt worn over a padded gambeson, it makes an effective hip defense.

hrolf · Post by **hrolf** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:23 am

Eltz-Kempenich wrote:Does mail seriously take that much of the punch out of blows?

Yeah, it does. My hip protection is my mail and a pair of mcdavid thudd shorts. Never so much as gotten a bruise there since i started wearing it.

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:55 am

There's several effigies that show coat of plates that extend well past the waist. Basically add a fauld but it sits inside of the shell of the coat of plates.

So extend the shell of your coat of plates. and put a fauld underneath. BTW fauld plates have a ( shape for the pattern.

DeCalmont · Post by **DeCalmont** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:05 am

Another big push for "maille", it does a body good. I can tell I've been hit and there is some sting still but nowhere near what it is without it.

Vilhelm550 · Post by **Vilhelm550** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:46 am

When I used a CoP, I had a linger gambeson and a second 4 oz weight leather 'skirt' that buttoned to the gambeson. Combined with padded chausses that when over the hip, it was very effective protection from blunt-force impacts. Currently, My lamellar extends over the hips in panels, so no problems there.

I'll try not to hit your tender hips if I meet you at The Armored Combat Offering tomorrow....

Vilhelm

Seved Ribbing · Post by **Seved Ribbing** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:04 pm

Matt Mat and Steve,

I have MM's COP and followed his instructions. The plates (faulds?) stop at my navel. Where does the bottom of your plates hit? I have dag plates but I am thinking of dropping them for maille.

How does one go about securing their belt to the COP? I have tried to put a belt on after I have secured my cop but it just wants to slip off. Should I put a belt loop on both sides of the cop?

Thanks,
Seved

Mad Matt · Post by **Mad Matt** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:53 pm

You didn't need to make mine so short. It bends more then the human body does and can extend right down to the hips. If you're really tall you can add another set of horizontal plates.

You really need something below the natural waist in order to get a belt to stay on without loops.

Eltz-Kempenich · Post by **Eltz-Kempenich** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:09 pm

Thanks for the input all! I was looking through a children's Eyewitness book on knights and also came to the conclusion of using a mail skirt. I'll be giving that a try, I think. Does anyone have photos of the inside layout of their CoP that extends below the waist?

Vilhelm, I regret that I will not be at THACO. I have to take my first exam in the process of my teaching licensure. In the evening we'll be in the shop; we're falling behind in getting commissions done and I have a friend that I am helping learn the craft. I admit I am deeply disappointed now to find out that I'll miss you there. We're planning to be at Castle Fever, though.

Brother Logan · Post by **Brother Logan** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:11 pm

In this pic you can see where my plates stop, this is where the skirt begins. I made the skirt out of butted aluminum rings to save a bit of weight. The skirt is attatched to a thin belt and goes on top of my padded gambeson, wich also extends to just below my hips as can be seen in the other pic.
Cheers,
Leo

MarkH · Post by **MarkH** » Fri Apr 23, 2010 2:35 pm

How do you attach your legs?
I hang two hip plates from the c-belt for my legs.
They are leather backed with steel, so they are great protection.
The nice thing about hanging plates from the c-belt is that they are covered by the gambeson, so I don't ruin my nice 14th century profile

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:40 pm

I have MM's COP and followed his instructions. The plates (faulds?) stop at my navel. Where does the bottom of your plates hit? I have dag plates but I am thinking of dropping them for maille.

My plates stop at just below the navel. The plates of my CoP do not protect my hips at all.

My hips are covered by:

linen shirt
quilted arming coat
maille
jupon of coat of plates

Thus with my current canvas-ply coat of plates, my hips are covered with 5 layers of fabric, plus a layer of cotton batting, plus maille.

With a leather jupon for the coat of plates, my hips would be covered with 3 layers of fabric, a layer of cotton batting, a layer of maille, and a layer of leather.

How does one go about securing their belt to the COP? I have tried to put a belt on after I have secured my cop but it just wants to slip off. Should I put a belt loop on both sides of the cop?

I have not found a satisfactory way of doing this, especially if you are fat.

Steve

Cisco · Post by **Cisco** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:56 am

Steve -SoFC- wrote:
How does one go about securing their belt to the COP? I have tried to put a belt on after I have secured my cop but it just wants to slip off. Should I put a belt loop on both sides of the cop?

I have not found a satisfactory way of doing this, especially if you are fat.

Steve

I have, and I are fat.

A belt with an actual buckle in it (got it from The Real Leather People but they don't have it on their website). It's about a 3 inch wide belt with a roller buckle in it. Then I just punched holes where I'd want it and that helps keep my maille up. I cinch mine between just under my gut and above my hips.

It is, however, glaringly un-period. About as much as the O-ring belts for most of us though.

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:24 am

A belt with an actual buckle in it (got it from The Real Leather People but they don't have it on their website). It's about a 3 inch wide belt with a roller buckle in it. Then I just punched holes where I'd want it and that helps keep my maille up.

The question, though, was about how to secure a belt to (over) a coat of plates, not maille.

The only way I got a belt to work with a coat of plates in any meaningful fashion was to strap the belt in between rows of rivet heads on the coat of plates. The rivet heads helped, sometimes, to keep the belt from sliding down off the coat of plates. But I don't think there is much functional purpose in wearing a belt this way.

I believe, for a normally-sized person, that a belt worn with a coat of plates would not cinch over the plates, but rather under the plates (that is, below the ribs, more towards the waist), thus cinching the jupon of the coat of plates on the wearer's hips.

But if you are fat, the plates of your coat of plates are held away from the hips, especially over the stomach, and thus the jupon hangs away from the body and trying to cinch it with a belt would just look odd, I think.

Steve

I