What defines a stick jock?

Khann · Post by **Khann** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 7:39 pm

I have recently been accused of being a stick jock.
What defines a stick jock?

Thanks Khann

Connor McEldridge · Post by **Connor McEldridge** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 7:49 pm

I would define it as someone who just goes out to fight. Nothing or little else, just in it for the fighting.

Brodir · Post by **Brodir** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 8:14 pm

In a positive sense, a stickjock is somebody who loves the fighting to the point of single-mindedness. I have a really cool pair of Alistair shoes which I wear with my garb. At a tournament a couple years ago, a face thrust from a greatsword broke my chinstrap 20 minutes in, so I pulled the laces out of my shoes, used them to fashion a chinstrap, and kept fighting. That night, even though I had a nice pair of shoes, I wore my combat boots during the feast, since my shoes had no laces. One guy started laughing when I told him about it and called me a stickjock

.

Bad example, a guy I fight against quite often throws a fake at my shield-side head, then hits me in the leg when my smallish shield flies up (and vise-versa). To counter this, I leave my shield in a low position, and use my sword to cover my head, with the tip braced behind my shield, and the basket up by my temple. It doesn't really block shots to the head, but it takes some of the force out of them, so that they hit light. It's sort of cheating, using calibration levels and indestructible SCA weapons rather than speed, skill, and shieldwork. It's a stickjock mentality, and I would like to get away from that sort of fighting as my skill improves.

Broðir

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 9:03 pm

It is often used interchangeably with sport fighter. In that case it refers to someone who cares only about winning fights. Not about history, or honor, or chivalry. They care about beating other people and thats it. Often the bad version of stickjock(ie sport fighter) views authenticity as a hinderence to the game he plays. They can usually be indetifyed by their everlast kidny belt, plastic armour, huge shield, blue jeans, and bad garb. They are also the guys that vanish after the list ends, unless they're getting an award.

The term is also sometimes used as a jibe or term of endearment toward very didecated fighters who wil make virtualy any sacrifice to play, ie Brodir's shoe story. These guys drive for hous to go to an event, go to fighter practice in the rain ectectect.

So it depends on the context what it means, though if it's any comfort very few of the bad kind would bother with the Archive. So they were probably using the dedicated version.

hjalmr · Post by **hjalmr** » Sat Mar 02, 2002 11:18 pm

Stick jocks are basically those who care about nothing but the fighting. They show up to fight and do nothing else. They also fight whenever possible -duct taping broken armor, shoelacing helmets, even bandaging fresh wounds. I was a stick jock when I first started out in the SCA. I showed up when the event opened, put on armor and started fighting until they closed the list. I then packed up and went home. Not only was I a stick jock -I was a sports fighter.

Sports fighters are those who use whatever armor gives them the biggest advantage -especially the light indestructable stuff. The only steel armor I wore when I first started fighting was a helmet. I even used a plastic shield (however my shield was wieghted to make it legal.) I was told by many people that I couldn't win as easily as I do if I put on real armor -so I did. I now agree with no plastic, or aluminum, at events. Practice is one thing, but we should strive to be reasonably authentic at events. I do very well in steel armor, but I'm greased lightning in minimal plasticware -and it really isn't fair to someone who is attempting to relive actual combat in authentic armor.

(^_^)

[This message has been edited by hjalmr (edited 03-02-2002).]

[This message has been edited by hjalmr (edited 03-02-2002).]

Fearghus Macildubh · Post by **Fearghus Macildubh** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 3:44 am

I am a stick jock, and damn proud of it. The only reason I play SCA is to fight. I did all the research on arms and armour, medieval history, military history and suchlike long before I heard of the SCA. I like to fight, I prefer talking about fighting and armour and such to most other SCA topics. I make armour to help other fighters start fighting, I teach newbies and marshall when needed. If there isn't fighting at an event, well......I probably won't show.
That being said, as soon as the fighting is done, I'll be setting up tables, carting stuff and helping in the kitchen, other stuff I like to do. I have to admit that I find most court boring and don't ask me to dance. I will however gladly sit and listen to music during bardic circles and trade tales with the best of them. But should the tales stray into gossip and politics, I usually leave. My personal barometer is...does it relate to fighting, or is it a positive story about service/chivalry/living the dream? if it isn't, I don't want to hear it. I do this hobby to get away from all that stuff.
Slainte,
Fearghus

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"How long will we fight? We will fight until hell freezes
over. Then we fight on the ice."
Fearghus's Homepage

Otto von Teich · Post by **Otto von Teich** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 9:59 am

I always thought of a stick jock as being just a true master of SCA combat.A guy that practices hard and wins many bouts.Could be wearing plastic,or full steel cap a pie. Not a bad thing in my mind.....Otto

Hushgirl · Post by **Hushgirl** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 11:23 am

A stick jock will get up at 4:00 am and drive six hours, fight six hours, pack up and hit a drive through on the way home. Doesn't want to do anything else, won't talk to anyone but fighters, sometimes even if it would get him laid. If authenticity bumps up against winning, he picks winning every time.

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Don't be so open-minded that your brains fly out, or so closed-minded that your imagination can't.

Templar Bob/De Tyre · Sun Mar 03, 2002 11:47 am

Hi...I'm Templar Bob, and I'm a recovering stick-jock.

(Hi, Templar Bob!)

In the context of the competitive SCA game, I would use any armour advantage I could find. My wife could tell you how unbearable I could be before a tournament; staying up late working on equipment so it would pass marshal's inspection, upgrading gear that would make me the least whit faster. I believed that if I only had two or four hours' sleep before a tournament, it gave me an edge (and at tournament, it seemed to work out that way). I would fight on limited sleep, sitting on the sidelines listening to Metallica to get myself "pissed off enough to win".

At practice, duct-taping a piece of equipment so I could spend every possible moment fighting until I could get it home and spend hours on improving it.

I'd shave my swords down to where they'd be barely legal. I'd make my mass weapons as heavy as possible so there'd be no possibility of refusing a blow. I'd wear my gambeson during the day to hide the Midrealm Ranger T-shirt, and considered it "a reasonable attempt at medieval garb".

On the few occasions I'd condescend to go to a feast or court, I'd wear my gambeson either at table or in the presence of the Crown. A gambeson is garb, right? My wife would end up stealing my gambeson and making me wear a tunic.

On those occasions I didn't go to feast, we'd stop at McDonalds, where I'd wolf three double Quarter Pounders with Cheese and a chocolate shake, then I'd sleep while Hushgirl drove us home. I thought of nothing except what would get me noticed by the Chivalry, nothing except fighting and armour.

I then realized (after about eighteen years of this) that I wasn't having any fun. I did stuff because I was obligated to, not because I wanted to. I let what other people said matter more than what was the reason I joined the Society in the first place.

Back when I was eighteen, I read a series of books by Harold Lamb on the Crusades. The idea of being a medieval knight fired my imagination. When I saw my first demo, I was hooked. All of the things that made me a stick-jock was primarily driven by wanting to be like the brave knights that fought in the Crusader battles I can still see when I close my eyes.

Now that I'm forty-two, I'm focusing more on what made a medieval noble the person he was. And he wasn't as one-dimensional as I was.

(P. S. ---Now I listen to Static X to get pumped up to fight...well, some things never change.)

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Robert Coleman, Jr.

The Noble Companie and Order of St. Maurice
Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.

Remember: In Living History/Reinactment, Real Life is the Great Leveler of Man.

[This message has been edited by Templar Bob/De Tyre (edited 03-03-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Templar Bob/De Tyre (edited 03-03-2002).]

David deKunstenaar · Post by **David deKunstenaar** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 12:28 pm

I agree with Hushgirl. They fight, they go home. Court is boring, feast are to long, and they own one t-tunic costume that someone made them. Some wear great armor, and some wear sports armor. If they have the money they spend it on armor or gas to a tournament, but nothing else. They show up to every fighterpractice, and are happy to talk about anything that has to do with fighting or fighters. They only volenteer to help if it gets them on the list faster. (i.e. "I'll do the authorization fight.")

David

hjalmr · Post by **hjalmr** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 12:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Otto von Teich:
I always thought of a stick jock as being just a true master of SCA combat.A guy that practices hard and wins many bouts.Could be wearing plastic,or full steel cap a pie. Not a bad thing in my mind.....Otto<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the definition of a "Hot Stick", not a stick jock. Stick Jocks pretty much aspire to be Hot Sticks -that is there primary goal in sca life.

(^_^)

mordreth · Post by **mordreth** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 12:37 pm

With proper nurturing, and guidence they are frequently larval knights

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 1:48 pm

"My personal barometer is...does it relate to fighting, or is it a positive story about service/chivalry/living the dream? if it isn't, I don't want to hear it. I do this hobby to get away from all that stuff."

EEP!

Sounds too much like me!

Must do A&S project!!!!

In all honesty i got into the SCA to fight with swords in armour.

Other than loving the piles of food at feast, and actually having garb Kat had made me I was exactally like Templar Bob.

Hushgirl · Post by **Hushgirl** » Sun Mar 03, 2002 1:49 pm

Well, yes, and sometimes they mature nicely. Just as often, though, they learn the bare minimum of what they have to learn to get knighted, still relying on their hotsticking to get them noticed, and after being knighted put it all aside. They become stick-jocks-in-belts. Fortunately for the kingdoms, they continue to find not only court but chiv. meetings boring and seldom stay.

Unless they have an agenda.

[This message has been edited by Hushgirl (edited 03-03-2002).]

Christian de Westborn · Mon Mar 04, 2002 1:38 pm

I've always thought of stick-jock as one of those terms that started out as derogatory but was then taken on by the targets as a mark of personal pride. I've heard a lot of fighters refer to themselves as stick-jocks regardless of how much effort they put into other SCA activities.

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Long live the Prince and Princess of Cynagua!

Shamey · Post by **Shamey** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 1:55 pm

I refer to myself as a stickjock, actually I've never took it to mean anything derogatory/never heard it used in such a manner. In fact no matter what I do in the SCA, I'll probably always refer to myself as a stickjock.

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 3:57 pm

"I've always thought of stick-jock as one of those terms that started out as derogatory but was then taken on by the targets as a mark of personal pride"

Sort of like Muttman

John

Crystoll · Post by **Crystoll** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 4:20 pm

Hi, I'm Crystoll and I am a rattan sl&t!
I aspire to be a stick-jock when I grow up

Seriously, I've heard it both ways, as a compliment and as a derogatory term..

It really does depend on the syntax and local flavor of the person making/taking the remark..

Crystoll Mackintosh

Sieur Raymond · Post by **Sieur Raymond** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:00 pm

There's a difference between "Yeah, X is a stick jock." and "Yeah, X is *just* a stick jock." One should be careful about such lables. A friend of mine sometimes gets comments like, "Oh sure, X is a great fighter, but he doesn't do anything artistic!" I always laugh because in "real" life, the guy is a professional photographer! While, professional painters, jewelers, and history professors are made Laurels, he had the bad luck to choose a non-medieval art form.

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 5:07 pm

My take would be this: Both "stick" and "jock" are mundane modern terms. Therefore, it would be my interpretation of the term that a stick jock is someone who is only interested in the athletic aspect of what we're doing, which is fighting with a stick in some form of armour. Furthermore, their interest would say that a sport advantage is more important than any kind of period appearance.

I'm ***NOT*** saying that you can't use the term in a non-derogatory way. I'm saying what my opinion of the term's linguistic entemology is.

However, I would never use the term personally as a compliment. I don't think it's automatically an insult, but it's deffinately no compliment.

Duke Icefalcon · Post by **Duke Icefalcon** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 6:38 pm

I'm stayin out of this one.......

(as blood runs from my bitten toungue)

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Graf Sir Andreas Eisfalke - Kingdom of the East

www.icefalcon.com

"Pain is just weakness leaving the body..."

mordreth · Post by **mordreth** » Mon Mar 04, 2002 9:42 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sir Andreas Eisfalke:
I'm stayin out of this one.......
(as blood runs from my bitten toungue)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
****************************************
Come on in Andreas - the conversations fine
Mordreth

Ashi · Post by **Ashi** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 1:00 am

Around here in my experience the term "stick jock" is usually used by people who do not fight. It is usually a derogatory term used in an attempt to demean someone else.

Sadly enough it usually doesn't matter what else you do in the SCA. You can help at all gatherings, perform legitimate historical research, make all your own garb, build all of your own armour, hold local SCA offices, hold classes, arrange demos, brew your own alcohol, make your own paper, do all of your own leather-work, build your own period tent, enter arts and science competitions and research and play a period instrument; but if some people see you fighting, that and that alone makes you a "stick jock".

hjalmr · Post by **hjalmr** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:51 am

Most of the time I hear the word "stickjock" from the fencers -who obviosly don't like us...

(^_^)

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 11:54 am

Ashi...I'd argue with those folks extensively.

Hjalmr...are you saying fencers don't like heavies or are you saying that you hear "stickjock" from the group of fencers who obviously don't like you and your group of heavies?

Andreas...Yeah, please weigh in with your opinion. It is, after all, only an opinion.

Marcus Von Westphal · Tue Mar 05, 2002 12:39 pm

I fight, I am involved with A&S, I blacksmith, I do decorative metal work, I go to feast and I stay for court. Although I consider myself to be involved with many aspects of the SCA, I still consider myself a â€œStick Jockâ€

Hun · Post by **Hun** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 4:56 pm

But Ashi, you ARE a stick jock...
(Klaus runs from a formely benevolent benefactor)

Hushgirl · Post by **Hushgirl** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 5:24 pm

Marcus, I remember when you were justastickjock.

Konall · Post by **Konall** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 7:06 pm

I'd say it is the license plate on the pickup that reads "STIK JOK"

Nope, not me...I got tired of the extra fee they tacked on every year to renew it. Still have the plates tho.

Richard Blackmoore · Post by **Richard Blackmoore** » Tue Mar 05, 2002 8:23 pm

Quote: "Isnâ€™t interesting that we have a name for people that only show up to fight, but no name for people who only show up to socialize, or show off some spiffy item they made?"

Sure we do:

1) Fighter Groupies

2) Minions

3) The First To Die if Timeline was not just a book.

4) Rabble

5) Combat Archers

6) Merchants

7) Necessary Evils

The Lost

9) Gypsies, Tramps an Thieves

10) White Collar Workers

[This message has been edited by Richard Blackmoore (edited 03-05-2002).]

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 8:24 am

But only Stick Jocks (loosely defined as those wielding the sticks) can win the crown. All other catagories are subsidiary.

Corby · Post by **Corby** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 10:55 am

Yah, I'm definitely a stick jock. every time that i can, i put on the armor. I had my chinstrap break at winter war this last weekend, and ended up ripping the nylon carrying handle off my armor bag to make a new strap so i could get back in. I think that qualifies. it was funny tho. So, stickjock is not a bad thing to me, it just means i want to fight as much as possible. Also, strapping on my armor and having Sir Thorson come up and say 'Hey, I wore armor 12 years ago' kind of makes your day. And it is a very nice piece of coldwood plate, too.

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 12:29 pm

See, I think "Heavy Fighter" is the umbrella statement for anyone who puts on armour of any kind, authorizes to swing a rattan stick at their friends in the SCA. Sub categories would include "stick jock." But hey, Nazi used to be a derogatory term, but I've heard authenticity fanatics describe themselves as Nazis as well. Language evolves.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 9:59 pm

There's nothing wrong with being a stickjock. I am happy to be a stickjock. I fight at every chance I get. Wars, tourneys, practice - it's all good. Any weapon and any form, although I especially enjoy sword & buckler. While I consider myself a stickjock, I certainly don't consider myself a "sports fighter" in the context of one who choses their armour, weapons & style to give them an edge. I wear full plate, with my old beat up rig for practice and a nice shiney one for tourneys. I camp in period pavilions and am always trying to upgrade my camp towards the goal of being more period. But the joy of combat always calls me. People know that they can count on me to put on armour and fight.
I'm a stickjock. It's what I do.
- Scott

Murdock · Post by **Murdock** » Wed Mar 06, 2002 11:48 pm

I think we're seeing that the term is used in different ways by diffent folks with different meanings.

Like the term "Red Neck" here in the South.

Most guys that like guns, and drive trucks in the South will proudly identify themselves as "Red Necks". Even the ones that work for the Bank or the ones that are Dr.'s at Healthsouth.

However for many it carries a negative meaning; racist wife beating nut. Where as the guys that think of themselves as "red necks" might really be "good ole boys" to someone else and "redneck" would mean what the Bankers and Dr's think of as "trailer trash".

See the problem? While stick jock or red neck may be a reverse term of enderment to some, can mean a major butt head to others. All depending on who your talking too and what your talking about?

Confused yet?