Basket hilts vs. Guantlets

Winther · Post by **Winther** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 11:49 am

Has anyone fought sword & shield, florentine both ways ? How much wrist movement is lost fighting with guanlets instead of basket hilts ? I want to look more authentic than a basket, though this is the only way I've fought (2 yrs).

Winther

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"Esse Quam videri"
To be rather than to seem

Stoffel · Post by **Stoffel** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:23 pm

how much wrist movement is lost with the gauntlet? none, in my opinion, you gain alot more. I cant even stand to fight with baskets anymore, they are just so restrictive, you can move your hand around the weapon like you can with a guantlet, and they look crappy. Its well worth the change.

Aidan Cambel · Post by **Aidan Cambel** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:31 pm

I have fought sword and shield both ways. Fighting with a crosshilt and gauntlets is way different than fighting with a basket hilt. I tend to lose some wrist movement with the gauntlets, but I don't know if that s just me or just a fact you'll have to deal with. I was taught to loosen my grip on the sword slightly as the shot was being thrown, and to regrip it at the time of impact. This helps you from getting that rigid death grip on your stick and gives you more control. However that doesn't work well with gauntlets/crosshilts. You don't have that basket to act as a "catch", and it becomes easy for your opponent to knock the sword out of your hand. Some sort of lanyard or trigger might help.

Also because now the weight is on your hand instead of IN your hand, it makes your shots feel different. It takes some getting used to. But one thing I have found, after fighting for several weeks with the crosshilt, when i do use a basket my shots are a lot more effective and controled.

This is just my experience, so don't take it as the rule. As with anything, experiment and see how you like it.

Aidan

David deKunstenaar · Post by **David deKunstenaar** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 12:56 pm

Alot depends on how the gauntlets are made. Wrist movement is just one of the differences, and with many designs, not a problem, or difference at all. Grip on the sword is the biggest. Your hand must close, and keep closed the gauntlet, as well as hold the weapon. The thumb catches on the finger plate on some that I have used. Also the weight of many has been a problem withthe metal ones, although, some of the better armorers have solved most, or all of these problems, with their better ones. The mass tends to cause problems with controle with loose fit too. If they don't fit right, then you will still have a problem. I have an old pair that had 10 lames. My fingers were safe, but it was impossible to fight with single sword with them. I took two of the lames out, and the fit was much better, but only after I bought a pair of egg kidex ones, that work like a naked hand, and offer great protection. I am working on my own design for my late 13th c.
I have used basket hilt a lot. once again I get the best protection and performance out of them, but the aesthetics are lost. (That is as much aesthetics as you can get when you are fighting with a club.

)

The goal is to make historical hand protection that performs like a basket hilt or better.

Sir David deKunstenaar
fighting in the SCA since 1976.

Christian de Westborn · Tue Apr 16, 2002 2:31 pm

I don't know about wrist movement being lost - I have the same amount of room there with gauntlets as I do with a basket. But there is a certain amount of difference in the grip. Your fingers are more restricted in full gauntlets-some of their movement is being used to keep the gauntlet closed. It will take some experimenting to find a strapping arrangement that will allow you to get the grip you want.

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Long live the Prince and Princess of Cynagua!

Gabriel · Post by **Gabriel** » Tue Apr 16, 2002 3:10 pm

I have been fighting in my gauntlets now for almost a year. The gauntlets I have is padded leather mittens, and they work great. Since there is no weight in them you get a good grip on the sword, and good movement to. I'm happier both whith the movement and the look.

Gabriel Halte

hjalmr · Post by **hjalmr** » Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:20 pm

Well you get a much better grip with a halfgauntleted baskethilt, but I prefer gauntlets. Of coarse I like gauntlets better because I prefer tip heavy swords.

(^_^)

Tim · Post by **Tim** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 12:21 am

I fight two swords all the time. Basket hilts seam to give me a more stable platform for defense. When I used guantlets the swords rattled in my hands and I couldn't keep a grip. But as far as wrist motion. Gauntlets are way better. I could get some insane angles. If I wasn't shield retarded I'd use a guantlet, they're just better. Make sure you use a sword guantlet not a pole guantlet. Otherwise there is no wrist motion.

Tim

Rorik Galbraith · Post by **Rorik Galbraith** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 8:30 am

I started out using basket-hilted swords and did quite well with them for a goodly time. Then a man by the name of Bob Charon challenged me to do the same thing with cross hilted swords....I was hooked as soon as I started using them. I can do a much better job of working a cross hilted sword than with a basket hilted sword and I don't end up getting banged by the basket.

Because I had nerve damage in my hand (carpal tunnel syndrome) that I just got the surgury for in last 6 months, I had to have a trigger to insure I did not lose the sword and I hated lanyards. I still use the trigger and I really like the feel of a cross hilted sword..

I have no restriction of movement in my gauntlet as I use a design based on the Japanese Kendo padded gauntlet. Since my timeframe used no gauntlets at all...I figure as long as it looks like a gauntlet and isn't smurf blue....I use it.

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An oath, like an arrow, can not be recalled once loosed....think well before uttering such bindings and then stand fast to them.

Rorik Galbraith · Post by **Rorik Galbraith** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 8:33 am

deleted due to double post.

[This message has been edited by Rorik Galbraith (edited 04-18-2002).]

Anradan MacEwan · Post by **Anradan MacEwan** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 11:35 am

So,

for those of you using a trigger and guantlets, are you using finger gaunts or mittens?

I will eventually have cross hilted swords and gauntlets. I also currently use (and rely) on my trigger for most of my shots. What i didn't know was how I could put the two together. Any observations?

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I grow strong again!
Warcry of the clan Ewan
Ewan of Loch Fynne

Thaddeus · Post by **Thaddeus** » Thu Apr 18, 2002 1:29 pm

Rorik do you have any pictures of your gauntlets. I have been using one of my squire brothers egg armoury gauntlets with my Marcus Westfall quillon set and loving the result. But I am a little leary of the safety of those gaunts or the illusion the reasonable facsimile there of. I mean if Artos blasts me and I catch it on the hand by accident, well crucnh... so I use a basket hilt when I am fighting the Ol man.
Oh and Marcus if you are reading this any ploans to cast your pommel sets in aluminum????????? Enquiring minds would like something a little lighter.

Clifford Galbraith · Post by **Clifford Galbraith** » Sat Apr 20, 2002 5:03 pm

Thadeous, I do not have any pics at present, but the person who made them is Master Glendar, Brother to Halidar of Calontir. THey are about 90 dollars for the pair and he HATES making them...but will. They are very safe...the ol' man hisself couldn't hurt me through those and he hit me more 'n once or twice back then. Artos really liked them I know that.

Drop me a line sometime and I will try to get you the address.

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An oath, like an arrow, can not be recalled once loosed....think well before uttering such bindings and then stand fast to them.