Stone Oiled Leather for a C.O.P.?

bhaiduk · Post by **bhaiduk** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:58 pm

I just bought a side of "stone oiled" leather from Tandy to make my C.O.P. I was suckered in by the nice smooth black finish, the feel, and the mostly the price. When I got it home I started getting buyer's remorse as I realized I don't know anything about it. A google search and a search here on the archive didn't help. Has anybody worked with this before? I know I can't dye it, but other than that do I work it like veg-tanned? I'm wondering if I need to do anything different to finish the edges, but any tips or hints would be nice.

Lord Thomas the Black · Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:05 pm

You can always try slicing a small piece off somehwere that'd end up as scrap anyway, and play around with it (tooling it, messing with the finish, etc), and see what can be done.

It sounds like what you got might be chrome-tanned leather, or it might be the stuff used for biker leathers (which can be veg-tanned or chrome-tanned). I've never heard of "stone-tanned", and not really sure how that would work, short of petrification!

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:40 pm

It should be a pretty good choice for a cop. Because it has been treated with oils and waxes, it should be more resistant to sweat and rain than veg-tanned.

You almost certainly won't be able to slick the edges the way you would with veg tanned. You can give it a try - but don't expect too much

You can leave the edges unfinished, or you can roll them over and stitch, or stitch an edge binding on. My first choice would be to roll the edges.

You also might try dyeing the edge - but test that on scrap and make sure the dye will actually stay on the leather.

bhaiduk · Post by **bhaiduk** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:47 pm

Thanks! By rolling it you mean to fold it once towards the inside and stick the two together (like the bottom of a T-shirt). I think that would look nice, simple and clean. What exactly do you mean by an edge binding?

Cian of Storvik · Post by **Cian of Storvik** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:48 pm

I'm not a big fan of wearing that much leather in hot weather. But I agree it's more durable then most fabrics.
For leather, I would have suggested you go with deer tanned cowhide or some more flexible chap side. Either would be more flexible. And they are both on sale right now. For something thicker, the "heavy chap side" which is 5-5.5 oz. thick is also currently on sale (Around $105/23 sq ft. side).
I've used the stone oiled sides in the past, but if memory serves it will tear more readily then most of the other oil tanned sides. Make sure you use goodly sized washers on the outside of your coat of plates. It does get an interesting appearance as it stretches. I seem to think it was also on the thin side of 3 oz. which made it light, but it also added to the low shear strength.
I had my backup rondell on a stone-oiled leather belt and it tore in half the first time I wore it to practice (it was either a 1" or 1.25" wide strap of stone oiled leather).
-Cian

Kilkenny · Post by **Kilkenny** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:46 pm

bhaiduk wrote:Thanks! By rolling it you mean to fold it once towards the inside and stick the two together (like the bottom of a T-shirt). I think that would look nice, simple and clean. What exactly do you mean by an edge binding?

That's what I meant by rolling. An edge binding would be something folded over the edge and stitched in place. It can be done where you lay the binding with the good side facing the grain side of the leather and run a line of stitching, then fold the binding over covering that line of stitching and wrapping around the edge, then running a second line of stitching that holds the binding and will be exposed on the grain of the CoP. Or you can just wrap it over the edge, glue and clamp in place and then run one line of stitching to lock the binding on. The first is much more work, but looks much more professional when you're done.

audax · Post by **audax** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:30 pm

I made my CoP out of a utility hide. Don't remember if it was stone oiled or not but that thing ain't gonna tear in the near future. The weight and temper of the leather makes the difference in this application.

You will not be able to tool it. You won't be able to dye it.

It will probably not need edge dying. The oils and waxes make the edges dark. I didn't finish the edges at all on mine. There was no need and I didn't feel like doing that much sewing at the time.

I have not found the leather shell to particularly hot compared to anything else I've worn and it will last a LONG time. Armour doesn't breathe. It's metal (or at least it should be). Metal doesn't breathe.

bhaiduk · Post by **bhaiduk** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:47 pm

Audax:
If I remember correctly you were making a COP from one of Mad Matt's kits. Do you have any pictures?

audax · Post by **audax** » Tue Jul 06, 2010 10:34 pm

bhaiduk wrote:Audax:
If I remember correctly you were making a COP from one of Mad Matt's kits. Do you have any pictures?

Not any that show the CoP itself. It usually gets covered by a surcote. Heh.

I might be able to get a pic in a few days. I can say it did come out pretty nice. I get a lot of compliments on it.

Kel Rekuta · Post by **Kel Rekuta** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:01 am

Kilkenny wrote:It should be a pretty good choice for a cop. Because it has been treated with oils and waxes, it should be more resistant to sweat and rain than veg-tanned.

You almost certainly won't be able to slick the edges the way you would with veg tanned. You can give it a try - but don't expect too much You can leave the edges unfinished, or you can roll them over and stitch, or stitch an edge binding on. My first choice would be to roll the edges.

You also might try dyeing the edge - but test that on scrap and make sure the dye will actually stay on the leather.

+1 on all counts. "Stone oiled" is a finishing technique applied after tanning. The oil/wax blend is tumbled in giant drums with round pellets/stones to break fibre down. This beats the treatment into the leather as well as improves flexibility. Unless it is garment weight, that leather is very suitable to make a CoP or other harness.

It may take oil based dyes like Feibing Professional Oil dye. It will not take surface finishes like Resolene or Leather Sheen. Waterproofing treatments like mink oil, dubbin et cetera will work very well.

Have fun with that, it will be a long lasting project!

Johann Lederer · Post by **Johann Lederer** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:53 pm

Mine is made from that also. They used to call it Blacksmith or utility hide. Mine has a brownish/green color to it, I bound my edges around the neck with a piece of the hide hand sewn in place. The arm openings are not finished,yet. (it has been over a year!)

bhaiduk · Post by **bhaiduk** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:50 pm

I cut some and played with it a bit last night, and I think I'm going to leave the edges unfinished. It does stretch a little bit more than veg tan, but not enough that I think it will matter much.

Audax-
How did you close yours? I'm trying to decide between putting grommets in to lace it closed, and straps and buckles.

audax · Post by **audax** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:06 pm

bhaiduk wrote:I cut some and played with it a bit last night, and I think I'm going to leave the edges unfinished. It does stretch a little bit more than veg tan, but not enough that I think it will matter much.

Audax-
How did you close yours? I'm trying to decide between putting grommets in to lace it closed, and straps and buckles.

Straps and buckles on the sides (I really should add one more set). I attach the straps through the prepunched holes for rivets with arming nails and used latigo for the strap material.

I really think this thing could survive a nuclear blast. I'd be toast but that CoP would still be there. It's tough.

When I started mine, I was a little worried about the stretch in the leather but once the plates were riveted in place it became a carapace and way more rigid than I expected. It's very solid. With a mail shirt I'd be willing to face sharps with it.