Haubergon sleeve over or under the rerebrace?

Nissan Maxima · Post by **Nissan Maxima** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:20 pm

Haubergon sleeve over or under the rerebrace in the middle of the 14th century germany?

Movement seems better with the chain over the rerebrace. Can any one point me at an effigy or other resource to answer this?

Oswyn_de_Wulferton · Post by **Oswyn_de_Wulferton** » Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:47 pm

From this pic, I would say under. Gunther von Schwartzburg, German 1350.

audax · Post by **audax** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:07 am

http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi00033a13a.jpg

http://www.bildindex.de/bilder/mi04857f06a.jpg

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/monuments ... /original/

Pretty much seems that the plate armour was pointed over the mail.

Oh and this is the site I searched for all those pics. There are a LOT more.

http://effigiesandbrasses.com/

Galfrid atte grene · Post by **Galfrid atte grene** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 12:12 am

I agree with Audax. Judging by effigies, always mail under plate - if plate was worn at all - many show nothing but mail on the arms, even through 1360. Keep in mind that a haubergon (eg, short sleeved) is pretty much never depicted on effigies of this general time and place, they always wear full length sleeves (or at least 3/4 since we can't quite see where they terminate under the vambrace in some cases).

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 5:01 am

Depends, some art shows plate vambraces under loose fitting maille which could indicate full or floating arms. Some show tight fitting maille with armor over; if you go this route you need to tailor the maille.

Galfrid atte grene · Post by **Galfrid atte grene** » Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:45 am

Hi James, could you suggest one or two pieces to look at that illustrate loose mail in mid-14th Germany?