ANy one have any experience with Indian-made weapons and cha

Grenadier · Post by **Grenadier** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 5:08 am

I was wondering with anyone has any Indian-made armour or weapons and if so, what is your opinion on the quality?

I have heard some people complain that the quality is pure "shyte" and others that have found it quite good, if not equal to US-made armour and weapons.

Comments please.

I. Stewart · Post by **I. Stewart** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 5:27 am

My experience all points to "shyte".

Owen · Post by **Owen** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 6:15 am

My mail holds up about as well as any butted-ring mail does. The newer stuff, such as Albion gets, is far better than was available in the past, now that merchants are going there and showing them exactly what we want.

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Owen
"Death is but a doorway-
Here, let me hold that for you"

Templar Bob/De Tyre · Post by **Templar Bob/De Tyre** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 7:33 am

I've not had much trouble with the riveted maille I own. But much of that has to do with the nature of the armour. I think riveted maille is what is referred to in the Army as "expendable durable", that is, designed to last a while, but will eventually wear out.

The only real problem I've had with my maille is with the chausses---I've had to have them adapted from factory standard. Basically, they were a straight tube of mail with a foot. Now, they're tapered, like my leg. I'm not sure the Indians or Pakistanis would get into specialized tailoring like that, unless we make it worth their while financially.

All of the other pieces of armour I own are American made, and tailored to me.

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Robert Coleman, Jr.

The Noble Companie and Order of St. Maurice
Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.

Remember: In Living History/Reinactment, Real Life is the Great Leveler of Man.

[This message has been edited by Templar Bob/De Tyre (edited 08-29-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Templar Bob/De Tyre (edited 08-29-2002).]

David deKunstenaar · Post by **David deKunstenaar** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 7:56 am

I wear Pakistan/Indian mail.

Bad points: The neck hole was to large. (A leather cord solves this problem. A lot of the rings have the holes punched off center so that there is not metal around all of the rivit hole. This is a source of future moth holeing.

Good points: It is cheap. It is made of 16 ga, like some of the butted stuff and with rivits (even bad ones) it should last for a long time. Unlike what is often said, I have fond it to be perfect armor to do SCA type fighting. The weight allows you to feel the shot about right. (I wear a 4 layer cotton gambeson under it). I find it comfortable and unrestrictive.

Arti

Templar Bob/De Tyre · Post by **Templar Bob/De Tyre** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 8:03 am

Sir David:

One of the people in our household is taking the riveted maille tools I bought earlier this year to make the following alterations to my maille:

 1. Adjust the chausses so they're actually wearable to someone not from a starving African nation.

2. Attaching the coif to the shirt, then adding a ventail.

3. Lengthening the sleeves.

I purchased rings with rivets from both The Ring Lord and Von Sussen Enterprises. If you have a set of Stephen of Forth Castle's tools (and a clue on maillemaking) you can do quite a lot with your shirt. The alterations I'm having done will make the maille more functional, plus make it more in keeping with a 12th century suit.

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Robert Coleman, Jr.

The Noble Companie and Order of St. Maurice
Those who beat their swords into plowshares end up plowing for those who don't.

Remember: In Living History/Reinactment, Real Life is the Great Leveler of Man.

[This message has been edited by Templar Bob/De Tyre (edited 08-29-2002).]

James B. · Post by **James B.** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 9:12 am

I have some butted maille I believe is from India and it fits great. I also had a set of those gothic legs that Von Sussen Enterprises sells. I sold them because they didn't fit me well. They were a little long but I could have fixed that. The real problem was that they were made for a smaller leg than I have. My combo of being 40 pounds over weight, tall, a bicyclist, and an eastern martial artist gives me huge thighs and the articulated top of the leg would never fit me. Otherwise I thought they were nice legs.

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Cheap garb is as bad as plastic armor.

Steve S. · Post by **Steve S.** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 11:34 am

Indian maille tends to be "tube" maille. That is, all of the body components are made of untailored tubes.

Most of the Indian shirts have neck holes that are too large, and not biased forwards on the shirt as they should be.

Also, most of the Indian riveted maille flattens the ring ends first, and then overlaps them, which is not usually historically correct.

Finally, most of the Indian riveted maille uses round rivets.

Steve

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Forth Armoury
Highly authentic, affordable riveted maille.

horsefriend · Post by **horsefriend** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 2:15 pm

As mail has been well covered: Weapons; mediocre at best, weak tangs, poor quality steel, low quality finish, but inexpensive.

Alail/Scott

JJ Shred · Post by **JJ Shred** » Thu Aug 29, 2002 11:10 pm

I bought a haulberk from Purpleheart a year and a half ago for $320.00 with shipping. 16 guage, galv. riveted, short sleeve. I've lost one link since. I've worn it for Viking in the woods, 14th C. under a globose for steel Renn. Faire stuff, by itself with coif & barbute for 15th C. woods skirmishes with pollaxes (in the rain) & on horseback with spear and sheild, and have been hit, stabbed, fell, rolled, climbed and even fought SCA once in it.
I think it's a deal. I wouldn't pay MRL prices for it, but toss it in vinegar for Regia Anglorium or WolfArgent type authenticity groups, or leave it shiny for the faires. Make a rivet setting tool and do what T.B says about attaching coif and/or mittens, as well as fixing holes. I bought 10 lbs of rings for about $20.00.
And...most importantly, it's light! 1/2 to 2/3 the weight of my 14 guage butted maille.

Abaddon · Post by **Abaddon** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 1:38 pm

I think Indian mail has its niche. It is not the best, but some of it ain't bad either, and it is cheap. Considereing that you will probably never have to stake your actual life on it, how much ar you really willing to suffer financially for your art?

Thier swords are complete crap...but the same thing applies. If you aren't playing live steel, then having the best made blade is not really a must.

I think it is ironic though that a region that was historically known for the fineness of their maile and the intricacy and quality of their weapons has now become synonomous with cheap labor and shoddy production values. If I could only get some authentically made Indian armor...i.e., Indo Persian...I be really happy. I am a little mystified as to why the Indians aren't making more of their own historical pieces in the old traditional ways.

[This message has been edited by Abaddon (edited 09-03-2002).]

Therion · Post by **Therion** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 10:31 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
If I could only get some authentically made Indian armor...i.e., Indo Persian...I be really happy. I am a little mystified as to why the Indians aren't making more of their own historical pieces in the old traditional ways.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As an international arms dealer, I get about half a dozen emails a month from various Indian and Pakistani "manufacturers" ... almost always the products are minor variations of the same old crap with a "just send us your order, we can make anything!" note ... Every time I've asked why they're making bad copies of European armor and not good copies of their own cultures' stuff, if they even bother to reply the explanation is because "This is what sells!". Sigh ... that's why I import European armor from Europe. I've seen a couple of good examples of Indian arms and armor made in India, most notably modern versions of old damascened knives, but there's not much else yet that's Indian or Crapistani ... pardon me, Pakistani, that's worth the metal it's stamped out of ...

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Hal Siegel - TherionArms
http://www.therionarms.com

Brodir · Post by **Brodir** » Fri Aug 30, 2002 11:30 pm

Everything I own was made in the US or Canada except for two items; an Indian riveted maille shirt and an Indan helm. Indian maille has already been discussed, I'm happy with mine, it's strong and light and, being from an area where very few SCA/Faire/D&D people have seen riveted maille, it's a real showpiece.

My helm is the norman helm offered by Museum Replicas

http://store.museumreplicas.com/cgi-bin/www11650.storefront

I bought it for $50 with free shipping from an Archiver, and it is awesome. Solidly made, perfect welds, perfect planishing, perfect symmetry... my only gripe is that it is so 'identifiable' as an Indian helm, these are available from about 10000 sources. Lacks that individuality that my craftsmen pieces have.

Possible it's just a good helm though, I have heard a lot of bad things about Indian armour (and seen some downright horrifying things on Ebay).

Halberds · Post by **Halberds** » Sun Sep 01, 2002 12:27 am

I got a cheap viking sword from India. I can bend it over my knee and it stays that way. Just like a piece of soft 1018.