Couter Elbow Help Needed

[Amalric von Regensburg]

I am getting back into armoring for fun and wanting to upgrade my SCA heavy weapons kit to look more 15th C. Having been inspired by this awesome vidio;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIspslYoYHY&feature=channel
with the help of fellow amatuer SCA armorer Otto, we came up with this pattern;


Now with the pattern cut out in .09 soft aluminum to practice on I made the following. I need help in how to curl the shape where it curls into the inside of the elbow. Every time I tried to curl it in, it flattened out. I tried to show my attempt from every angle and any help is greatly appreciated.

No attempts were made to clean/sand/polish this up as it is just a practice piece.






[img]http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/817/couter04.jpg[/img]







An alternative use, a Codpiece.
[img]http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7663/coutercod.jpg[/img]

Thanks
Amalric

[Pitbull Armory]

Hi there, Get the curl in the main part of the piece before you flare the edges. Dishing should curl it right around for you if its done before the flared edges. Do the flares slowly and use a crosspein like shown in the video and they wont straighten out the curled area much.

Take care

Pitbull

[Varukh]

LOL nice codpiece.

that video is very inspirational. makes me want to make more stuff asap.
nice first atempt though.

[Aussie Yeoman]

You're trying to achieve the shape with too few hammer blows. You need hundreds and hundreds more. The bend of the tail into the elbow bend is achieved by striking with a crosspein.

You can see it here:
http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... urves+easy

The curve emerges as a result of stretching the outer edges of the cop's tail when bent into a V shape, rather than either curling it around the arm then trying to 'vee' it, or bending it into a V then trying to curl it.

Additonally, I think the opening at the wide end of your pattern may not have a big enough angle. If you increase it to about 90 degrees, the pointiness and depth of the cop will increase dramatically.

Try it again and see what happens.

When making armour, getting there is most of the fun. Seeing it done at the end is the other little bit of fun that's left over, so don't rush. If it needs 1000 hammer strikes, that's what you should give it.

Dave

[GuntherofOrkney]

Aussie's method is good but if you got a peice thats already formed and dont wanna loose the shape then do what the youtube video shows which employs some of the technique explained by aussie. I do alot of flared edges(i like them) and the best way is lots of hits and passes,starting with the innermost and work outwards on the flared edge. while doin that your pounding the metal to stretch it so to avoid flattening out your peice and cracking your edge.

these are made from aluminum and require delicate forming or they will crack. wish i would have looked up more videos before my trial and error phase hehe.

[Amalric von Regensburg]

Thank you Gents for your help.

Aussie, I am going to try practicing like you did at http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=89931&highlight=anticlastic+curves+easy.

Gunther, what thickness and type of aluminum do you use for elbows, etc?
I am thinking of using T6 6061 in .06 or .08, any thoughts?

Amalric

[GuntherofOrkney]

anything thinner then 0.100 thick t6 6061 cracks,so thats what i use and its very strong so it holds up for sca combat pretty good.

[Amalric von Regensburg]

anything thinner then 0.100 thick t6 6061 cracks,so thats what i use and its very strong so it holds up for sca combat pretty good.

Gunther,
Would you use 0.100 thickness t6 6061 for other pieces of SCA heavy armor?
I am planning on making a set of these http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=89244
as well as some vambraces, some legs, and maybe a bevor. I intend to do try some minor fluting, such as is done on the shoulders link.
Thanks
Amalric

[Pitbull Armory]

Hi there, Aussie your thread on anticlastic curves shows you working on a V shaped piece, like a curved point. Perfect for explaining how to flare a piece and not straighten it. Im not sure but to be called anticlastic, as far as I know it should have been a U shaped piece like shown in the pic at the top of your post , like a womans waist, or the neck area on an armet. 2 compoud curves.

Im not sure either way but id like to know, Can anyone add more info?

Take care

Pitbull

[Frederich Von Teufel]

It is correct to call this an anticlastic form, despite the flare not normally being thought of as a curved form. The flared edge is not curved along the same plane as the cop itself, but in a perpendicular direction to the curve of the cop, hence making it more anticlastic than any other definition.

To the OP, Pitbull's link should be of help to you; note the crosspeen hammer, it's essential. Spot heat applied to the edge can also speed up this process. Additionally, having an anvil which has a curved edge similar to the one you are working torwards can also be a great help in properly supporting the curve.


Frederich

[GuntherofOrkney]

Amalric,i would use 0.100 thickness aluminum for everything thats gonna get hit in sca combat often and complex formed. some parts that are overlapping plates dont always need to be as thick.

[Amalric von Regensburg]

Everyone, thank you for all the help and advice.

Gunther, thank you for the tip about using the 0.100

Now I have my homework assigned;

1-order enough t6 6061 in 0.100 thickness to make my couters and a bunch more stuff;

2-start banging on some scrap to try and get a grasp on doing anticlastic curves;

3-cut out some more soft aluminum couter pieces to practice on whilst awaiting on the t6 to be delivered.

Amalric