The Woods Battle : Pennsic 2010

[Nissan Maxima]

The woods battle was made of awesome. We found a lovely spot to spring ambushes from and sprung em all day.

[Murdock]

"What's with all these back attacks?

Come on people we're better than this. "


I got speared twice in the back, right between the shoulder blades.

Once when i was very very already dead.


I chalked it up to bad aim in one case and spearman being an idiot in the other.

It was Pennsic and everyone played in their mileu.

Not my first rodeo

[BdeB]

I found the new woods challanging and fun, and not at all as dangerous as we were lead to believe (that being said I realize I only saw a small portion of it.) The fallen logs and rabbit holes made fighting spear rather difficult but that sorta added to the fun of it for me. Fighting on the roads was a breeze compared to the past woods site, but the undergrowth outside the roads was a little tricky.

One of my folks got poison ivy (he is sensitive to it). I didn't even see the stuff, but I was very careful were I laid down at Res, and wiped my boots off with alchohol after the battle.

Thanks to all that stop by our camp and enjoyed our shade and hospitality (and mister!) afterwards. It was great fun.

[Theodore]

As for the poison ivy, I got one spot on my leg but I saw more poison ivy along the ditch across the Serengeti than I did in the woods. If it is wooded and in Pennsylvania, there will be poison ivy.

As for the hazards, I think the cliffs and all of that crap were greatly exagerated as hazards since the troops density was too low to push people out of the beaten path. Though I would love to see some seige engines up on some of those hills, I miss CA in the woods that year was the best woods battle in the old site.
The ankle breakers are my primary concern with the site but could be cleaned up a good bit but would take some serious work.


Why are people hitting in the back? Some of it is just stupid opportunism, but I think we need to be a little more clear on the line engagement rule. I think some people think if they are attached to a line you are fighting they have clearance to fire from behind even if the person does not know you are there.

It is one thing to smack a guy in the back as he trying to bypass you within your weapons range while charging. It is quite another to wrap a line around an isolated unit and start hitting them from 360 degrees which is what it looked like in that video. Maybe we need to clarify that the line engagement rule only counts if the line was facing you when you entered spear range.

[ljlagnese]

i think the problem with the last half of your statement is that most of us are being trained that once lines are engaged it is free reign to attack whomever is in that unit regardless of facing,

[Murdock]

If that's the way folks are getting trained something is messed up,


your supposed to have engagement. Even if it's line on line


You don't nail people in the back because you want to.

[Owyn]

If that's the way folks are getting trained something is messed up,

Yes and no...
The old Eastern ROE said that if two lines were engaged, *any* member of either line was engaged with the entire opposing line. Now, that was changed (this year or last, I forget now) to individual engagement, even in a line situation. But it's certainly true that a lot of fighters around here are still adjusting to the change, and there have been some mess ups of engagement at local events as a result.

Not sure about other kingdom rules on this, however.

[Sigifrith Hauknefr]

Relevant Pennsic Rule:

9. ... When a fighter is part of a formed unit (i.e. a shield wall) that is fighting a similar unit, he may strike and be struck by any opponent within range. If a breakthrough occurs, one shot delivered in passing is allowed to the fighters passing and being passed.

However:

6. Striking from behind is forbidden.

and

Rules of Engagement
Attacking an opponent from the rear who is not aware of your presence is unsafe and is strictly prohibited. The opponent must be made aware of your presence and intent by gaining engagement before you may strike him. You gain engagement by the following circumstances:

The usual interpretation of these rules is that when two units are engaged, all "formed" members of both units are engaged, and opponents who are "unaware" may be struck -- from any angle. Maybe the East has changed their interpretation?

I think when things get dicey is when a couple fighters "small unit" get isolated and involved in a fast, swirly combat where they are moving around and exposing their sides and backs to each other. Since a "formed unit" is never really defined (does this mean only closed order? how close is formed? I would say 9' (weapons range) can still be a formed unit.

What if 5 guys are part of a formed unit (attacked by another unit), then the 3 middle guys die quickly. Are the two on the ends no longer in a formed unit? Does this happen as soon as the middle guy dies?
00000 - formed
00X00 - unformed?

THis is why I advocate getting rid of the stupid engagement rules. See other thread.

[/i]

[Gwydion Caithnes]

Cian, I just read your post. It's stories like this that keep me motivated to participate in the SCA. Well done, sir.

[Anon001]

deleted

[Maeryk]

I'd like to add another positive anecdote-
After res, I formed up with some folks I don't know ( usually I'd wait till I found parts of my unit, but our numbers were pretty far down, so I figured I'd lend a shield where I could.) Anyhow, in the thick of downed trees etc., we engaged and took out most of another unit, with a remaining spearman. As he was backing up, one of the opposing fighters saw he was going to be pushed back over a log, shouted such, and these guys allowed him to re-set safely before finishing him off.
I saw a lot of poison ivy and pushed a dead tree over that was as thick as my thigh- I had been thinking I'd use it as a handhold to get over obstacles on my way back to res. It is very soft earth composed of lots of damp leaf litter and rotting wood. Not as bad as Pandora's Box used to be a few years ago, but very soft.

People have been hit by falling trees before.. right Frieman?

[Bran ap Rees]

Woods = Made of awesome like Nissan said.
Great ridges and paths. Ruts and logs but no really hazzardous drop offs.
Hope the scenario can be balanced like his Grace Ice indicated, I love the woods.
Ivy - saw it...no more than the other woods though. After both heavy and fencing in the woods and a good bit of off-road moving and rolling around no itchies here.

I finally got to meet lots of folks face to face, Animal among them. He was the voice of fair play over a rough tournament and a very gracious host. Hope he's OK and feeling better.

[Matthew Richardson]

Woods Were Best Fighting This Year at Pennsic!

The Western Kingdoms Alliance made it a point to work the middle (?)road, where we ran into Calontir, etc. We churned the road into a mud paste, with slippery spots.

The humidity was having it's way with most of the Aten fighters. I took two breaks to hydrate and wring the sweat out of my arming cap.

My personal apology to Sir Ix, as I slipped in the mud while throwing a spear shot. It hit far harder than intended and knocked him off his feet.

I thank all the fighters of both sides for the memories!

Mathghamhain
pronounced "Mayin"

[brewer]

Cian,

Your story is the most inspiring thing I've heard in a long, long time. I am the richer for hearing it!

Well done indeed!

Regards,

Bob

[Cian of Storvik]

I'm glad that it was inspirational to you.

Here is the sword and scabbard (The sword was the hex-pommel, not the round pommel).


-Cian

[Wulf]

The woods were fun but i was not at my best that day. I had 2 bags of fluids pumped into me by the EMTs at about 2300 the night before. Took 7 different veins before they could find a good one.

That being said the fight was fun if a bit slow on our end of the field. There were times when there were little to nobody from the midrealm side pushing at our lines. Really strange being able to take a break in the middle of the battle.

[Fearghus Macildubh]

Cian's tale is what the SCA is all about.

[kenrickb]

Relevant Pennsic Rule:

9. ... When a fighter is part of a formed unit (i.e. a shield wall) that is fighting a similar unit, he may strike and be struck by any opponent within range. If a breakthrough occurs, one shot delivered in passing is allowed to the fighters passing and being passed.

However:

6. Striking from behind is forbidden.

and

Rules of Engagement
Attacking an opponent from the rear who is not aware of your presence is unsafe and is strictly prohibited. The opponent must be made aware of your presence and intent by gaining engagement before you may strike him. You gain engagement by the following circumstances:

The usual interpretation of these rules is that when two units are engaged, all "formed" members of both units are engaged, and opponents who are "unaware" may be struck -- from any angle. Maybe the East has changed their interpretation?

I think when things get dicey is when a couple fighters "small unit" get isolated and involved in a fast, swirly combat where they are moving around and exposing their sides and backs to each other. Since a "formed unit" is never really defined (does this mean only closed order? how close is formed? I would say 9' (weapons range) can still be a formed unit.

What if 5 guys are part of a formed unit (attacked by another unit), then the 3 middle guys die quickly. Are the two on the ends no longer in a formed unit? Does this happen as soon as the middle guy dies?
00000 - formed
00X00 - unformed?

THis is why I advocate getting rid of the stupid engagement rules. See other thread.

[/i]

Based on the definitions in the East's EM Policies the two smaller units are not one unit. But in the swirl of combat who's going to keep track of that. What it boils down to, and it's impossible to legislate this, is that you shouldn't be a dick. Whacking people who don't know you're there isn't cool. If they should know you're there and you have an otherwise legal engagement, don't be a dick and paste them because you can.

Kenric

[DukeAvery]

The badge is an 8 pointed compass (hard to distinquish) surrounded by a circle of the Bellatrix Fighting School, counterchanged in my colors of blue and gold as per artistic license. It also shows my affection for the kingdom of Atenveldt. I fought my first 5 years with small shield and sword as Paul recommended in those days, and I believe still does. Train hard, take his classes, wade thru the material which can be dense. I didn't win a single tournament fight for the first two years. If it hurts, armor it. I've always found considerable pell work to be central my successes.

When I had come back to you last I had rezzed 3 times actually. The first one resulted in a 30 yard gain and I lived. Subsquent charges were fun but no where near as effective. The hex-pad stuff doesn't work in high humidity. Gear choices are critical.

Go. Fight. Win.

Regards

Avery