Talhoffer's manual rocks!!!!!!!

Constancius · Post by **Constancius** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:48 am

I recently checked out a translation of Talhoffer's manual and went through it at least twice in one day. the person that translated it is Mark Rector. Does anyone know of him, or how accurate the translation is?
One question that I have is about the dueling shields that are used extensively in the manual. would it be possible to make one and use it in the SCA? My initial guess it no, but I figured I would ask.
After pouring over the manual I can see why alot of you all are so adament about allowing half swording in the SCA. I think I figured out a way around it though(hehe). When you construct your sword, whether great sword or bastard sword, add an 18" ricasso above the quillions. It is legal to grip the sword above the quillions as long as there is a defined ricasso as long as its not over (IIRC) 18". You just can't use the murder stroke.
Thoughts or comments?
I'll have to go over it with a friend so that we can practice it, but I think that there is alot that will cross over into SCA combat quite nicely.

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Constancius of Lincolnshire

animis corporibusque

Asbjorn Johansen · Post by **Asbjorn Johansen** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:40 am

Depending upon your kingdom, they are possible (though challenging) to build and use, although you would likely have to get a waiver from a Kingdom EM. (Explain that they are only for a very specific combat events).

Make your longswords with a rattan crossguard, pad the ends, and mortashlag away depending upon your kingdom.

Half-swording is harder. The East has been running a halfswording experament for almost 2 years now, so thatâ€™s how we do it.

In practical terms most of the fetchbutch moves work better if the rules favor a more realistic type of combat than is typical in the SCA, but in a specialty tourney they show their effectiveness. That said, a lot of the basic concepts of distance control and timing can make your SCA fighting much more effective.

Asbjorn

Rev. George · Post by **Rev. George** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:54 am

My "murder stroke" idea involved using the cast rubber polearm heads for the cross guard, along with a rubber mace head for the pommell. then you get all the functionality you need. of course, it probly wouldnt pass SCA inspection because of the penchant for orthodoxy we embrace so mightily.

-+G

Asbjorn Johansen · Post by **Asbjorn Johansen** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 12:02 pm

Depends where you are. Based on what I've seen at Estrella, out west it would go over just fine. It should be fine with up to date Eastern marshal's as well.

Just bring a copy of the rules with you.

Asbjorn

Magmaforge · Post by **Magmaforge** » Fri Nov 29, 2002 5:27 pm

greetings, Constancius.
Mark Rector is a member of the Chicago Swordplay Guild (guess where we are located).
He feels it is fairly accurate for what it should be; it is felt that in the future a better translation will be possible that will yield more subtle details, but that will be from a better understanding of the martial context of the work to form a less literal translation more than anything else. I can pass along any inquiries you have to him if you should like. =)
Oscar Erkenswick, CSG

Urban · Post by **Urban** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 12:36 am

Maybe I'm just a dumb shmoe.. but what is half-swording??

~Folcric the confused

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Pain is an illusion.
An illusion in the form of big black and blue spots on my left shoulder.

Magmaforge · Post by **Magmaforge** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 3:05 am

http://www.aemma.org/onlineResources/talhoffer1459/denmarkHome.htm
halfswording is what the two fighters in the image displayed are doing; grasping your own blade to use it like a prybar or spear or as something else. It is most useful to halfsword when fighting close since you might not have the range to draw out your weapon for a nice cut.
Welcome to medieval fighting =)
Oscar Erkenswick, CSG

Constancius · Post by **Constancius** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 9:40 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Magmaforge:
greetings, Constancius.
Mark Rector is a member of the Chicago Swordplay Guild (guess where we are located).
He feels it is fairly accurate for what it should be; it is felt that in the future a better translation will be possible that will yield more subtle details, but that will be from a better understanding of the martial context of the work to form a less literal translation more than anything else. I can pass along any inquiries you have to him if you should like. =)
Oscar Erkenswick, CSG<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, just one at the moment. Is there a website that I can look at that would have an e-mail address for him? Does he have an e-mail address that I can contact him at? I don't have any specific questins at the moment. I haven't had the opportunity to attempt any of the moves/techniques shown yet, after I do get the chance I'm sure that I"ll have some questions.

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Constancius of Lincolnshire

animis corporibusque

Magmaforge · Post by **Magmaforge** » Mon Dec 02, 2002 8:14 pm

you can reach Mark Rector at rmarkrector@yahoo.com
=)

Constancius · Post by **Constancius** » Sat Dec 07, 2002 2:46 pm

Thanks. THe next challenge is to try to find the Fiore manual.

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Constancius of Lincolnshire

animis corporibusque

Keith Nelson · Post by **Keith Nelson** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 1:17 pm

If you're just looking for the Novati version of FIore's Flos Duellatorum manual, it's available as a PDF at the AEMMA site (www.aemma.org) in their library, under 15th century manuscripts. If I understand the situation correctly, they've transitioned to a completely Fiore-based training scheme. As far as a published translation into English goes, you'll have to wait on that until Bob Charron comes out with his sometime in the upcoming year (supposedly this summer?).

Keith Nelson

Andris · Post by **Andris** » Mon Dec 16, 2002 1:12 am

marks book is an amazing resource. i picked it up after i took a class on leberi (sp?). the csg is great for period work, i love training with them, but since becoming an sca member, and being at school i haven't been able to participate much. if you like the talhoffer, check out crhistian henry tobler's book on ringnecks version of liechtenauer. talk about amazing, makes me itch for the new italian book that has been on hold now for over a year. you can pick this one up at chivalry bookshelf, a bit expensive though. he covers longsword, both armored and unarmored, sword and buckler, hand to hand, armored sword and spear, armored spear, and armored mounted, lest we forget armored half-swording. i love it and would also see the middle kingdom allow us to grab blades without using ricassos. i hate it, and when using a 48" longsword it cuts my blade down consideralby. so long as there is a pomelshlag i can't see why it won't work, provided we don't use metal quillions, i use reinforced rubber hose for mine. now i just sit, crossing my fingers for the day when it becomes legal.

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There is no honour without heart.

Andris