Under thy Gambeson?

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:02 am

Asside from the requisite burly muscles... what do you wear under your gambeson/arming coat/aketon?

Do you prefer t-shirt? etc?

I've read in Ffollkes that the knight wore nothing under the arming coat/gambeson as it tended to bunch, and ride up, etc...

What have your experiences been in this area?

I used to fight in a really thin cotton turtle neck directly under steel armour... but this go-around I'm wearing a gambeson...

What's comfy?
Unobtrusive?

Anything else that comes to mind?

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Matthew Broadway (mattbroadway1974@yahoo.com)
Founder of The Armour Archive
Jack of All Trades... Master of none.

lyonnete · Post by **lyonnete** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:41 am

When I started out, I wore plain cotton T-shirts under my gambeson.
Then my sister sewed me a linen fighting tunic.
AH! Worlds better! I cannot express enough the disdain I now have for cotten t-shirts. Where the cotton becomes this parasitic second-skin tissue at the end of the night, the linen shirt is still a linen shirt, only wet.

I've never had any noticeable problem with the linen shirt riding up or bunching. It's just a t-tunic, really, with long sleeves.

Gentlemen, you may want to stop reading right here.

Under the linen shirt, I wear a cotton bra. Ladies- The Friday Bra by Wagner- available at all fine Kaufman's stores - is in my opinion the best blend of support and comfort with all natural fibers - ideal for fighting.

Okay - I know that last bit wasn't what you were asking for, but really, for me at least, finding a good fighting bra took a long time, and I want to share the knowledge.
(Of course, like a cotton T-shirt, the bra becomes all clingy with sweat. That's why I always bring a spare to practice, for afterwards.)

Hope this helps someone. I'll go sit in a corner and blush now.

Lyonnete

Edric · Post by **Edric** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:41 am

I hate to admit I wear ye olde cotton t-shirt.

I want to make a period undershirt out of linen to wear, but it is not on the top of my list of things to do. I do have linen for it so when I get the chance I can start it.

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--Edric de Aldebury--
edric@edricsrose.com
http://www.edricsrose.com

Flos est puellarum, quam diligio, et rosa rosarum, quam sepe video.
"My love is a flower among virgins, and a rose among roses"

justmagnus · Post by **justmagnus** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:48 am

I go with nothing underneath. I have a 2 part gambeson/aketon (I can't seem to break the habit of calling it a gambeson.)

The first layer is like a closely fitted under-tunic with padded sleeves. The second layer is like a padded vest that covers to about mid-thigh and has a padded collar.

I tried wearing a t-shirt under it once but found that all it did was get wet and bunch up.

Hope this helps,
Rob

Crystoll · Post by **Crystoll** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:51 am

I wear a very old long sleeve cotton pull over shirt under my gambeson. Mainly the only reason I wear it was to protect my neck from chaffing because of the dog collar style gorget I wear.
Suppose I could just sew on some suede to cover the padding and forgo the shirt totally..
Hmm...

Crystoll

Noe · Post by **Noe** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 10:54 am

Skin and manly muscles. T-shirts and such underneath are uncomfy.

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The defining characteristic of fanaticism is the inability to understand why everyone else is not a fanatic.

William Frisbee · Post by **William Frisbee** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:03 am

I wear a linen fighting shirt as well. Like lyonnete says, it does a world of wonders. Plus it really helps keep my sweat away from my steel. Sweat and steel do NOT mix.

dukelogan · Post by **dukelogan** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:05 am

i wear a long sleeved shirt called an "under armor" shirt. you can view one at: http://goldmanbros.com/details.asp?prodID=1671

the one i wear is black and works wonders. it is a little slick under my elbow armor so i pull the sleeves up. makes a hug difference when fighting. very slick, no bunching, and it really keeps me cooler. of course my tabard is two layers and acts like an oven mitt so any little help i can get is always welcomed.

a few weekends ago at an event here in atlantia called ice castles (mountains of va, pretty cold) i wore that under a light sweat shirt and was amazed at how dry i was at the end of the day. the sweat shirt was soaked with sweat but i was kept dry. its really good stuff.

there are versions of the same stuff popping up all over the place now. starter just began selling their version of it and you might find it at wal mart for under $12.

regards
logan

IainMcClennan · Post by **IainMcClennan** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:36 am

Lyonnette,

If you want to use linen all around, you might look into having a shirt made based on a 4-panel kirtle or cotehardie. A cote was cut and fitted to provide support on its own (no bras in the 14th century)and lacing up the front let's you do some fine tuning.

Here is an article my lady (a costume laurel) wrote on them- http://sca-garb.freeservers.com/articles/corikirtle.html

Iain

Aelric · Post by **Aelric** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 11:45 am

Linen St. Louis shirt from Black Swan. Cool, comfortable and durable. After fighting I can just take off my armour and still look period as I wander around and BS.

Aelric

Adriano · Post by **Adriano** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 12:07 pm

Wow, Duke Logan -- I thought you were just using "Under Armor" as an expression, but that's actually the brand name! I wonder if it occurred to them that somebody would actually wear it under armour?

I wear a tee-shirt under my gambeson in winter, nothing but manly muscles and back hair in summer. I find on a hot day my gambeson gets soaked with sweat and then I get evaporative cooling -- or I can jump-start the process by pouring water on myself. (Nice thing about mail -- it lets the breeze come through.)

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"Come, winds! Blow, wrack! At least we'll die with harness on our back!"

Samuel · Post by **Samuel** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 1:34 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by lyonnete:
When I started out, I wore plain cotton T-shirts under my gambeson.
Then my sister sewed me a linen fighting tunic.
AH! Worlds better! I cannot express enough the disdain I now have for cotten t-shirts. Where the cotton becomes this parasitic second-skin tissue at the end of the night, the linen shirt is still a linen shirt, only wet.

I've never had any noticeable problem with the linen shirt riding up or bunching. It's just a t-tunic, really, with long sleeves.

Gentlemen, you may want to stop reading right here.

Under the linen shirt, I wear a cotton bra. Ladies- The Friday Bra by Wagner- available at all fine Kaufman's stores - is in my opinion the best blend of support and comfort with all natural fibers - ideal for fighting.

Okay - I know that last bit wasn't what you were asking for, but really, for me at least, finding a good fighting bra took a long time, and I want to share the knowledge.
(Of course, like a cotton T-shirt, the bra becomes all clingy with sweat. That's why I always bring a spare to practice, for afterwards.)

Hope this helps someone. I'll go sit in a corner and blush now.

Lyonnete<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay... I wear nothing under my gambison.. but after that discription
"cotton becomes this parasitic second-skin tissue at the end of the night" there is NO way on earth im wearing a cotton shirt:-0

thanks Iain,

now I know what to make my squire for next 12th night... Ill have to talk Her significant other into getting the fit right.

hjalmr · Post by **hjalmr** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 2:34 pm

I don't wear anything under my gambeson, because I don't wear a gambeson under my maille hauberk. I have a decorative long sleeved, knee length tabbard that I wear under my maille and then a no sleeve, upper thigh tabbard over the maille. Looks very nice and period.

(^_^)
Hjalmar the bruised and battered!

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Hjalmar of Sognefjord
House Bearkiller
Barony of Grey Niche, Meridies.

"True nobility is not measured by being superior to another, but rather by becoming superior to oneself."

[This message has been edited by hjalmr (edited 02-19-2003).]

lyonnete · Post by **lyonnete** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 2:51 pm

Iain,

I've actually tried to make a 'fighting kirtle' My pattern was based on the work of Robin Netherton, but with a knee-length skirt.

Bad news: without the weight of a full skirt, the kirtle bunched up uncontrollably when laced tight. I couldn't bear how it felt, or how I looked in it, and so it went onto the scrap pile. Alas!

(Now, if I could just convince the marshalls to let me fight in a dress!)

Warm regards,
Lyonnete

justmagnus · Post by **justmagnus** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 3:05 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by lyonnete:
(Now, if I could just convince the marshalls to let me fight in a dress!)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why wouldn't the marshals let you fight in a dress? As long as you have the required equipment also there shouldn't be a problem.

Respectfully,
Rob

Ned Chaney · Post by **Ned Chaney** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 3:11 pm

I wear a linen undertunic made in the pattern of the St Louis tunic.

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Quid Curone

Jean Richard Malcolmson · Wed Feb 19, 2003 3:46 pm

Sir Elzasif Ironhand fights in a white surcoat with trim which looks very much to me to be a dress. Pictures can be found at: http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/ladyknights/cyf.htm

Regards,
Jean Richard
Ansteorra

Ld. Kazimir of Ostgardar · Wed Feb 19, 2003 5:30 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Adriano:
[B]Wow, Duke Logan -- I thought you were just using "Under Armor" as an expression, but that's actually the brand name! I wonder if it occurred to them that somebody would actually wear it under armour?

I do wear it under my armor every day. Kevlar and Spectraflex are noted for their ability to retain heat. Nice in 30 degree temps. but brutal at 95. the intended use is for under bullet resistant armor. that it works for under my brigandine is bonus. I can't take my B.P.s off untill the end of the day and sweat as mutch as during a hot day at pennsic just standing around at work. there are also a few other products for controlling heat check law enforcement supply sources and/or "body armor" suppliers.

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"Words have meaning"
Rush Limbaugh.
So use them correctly

Samuel · Post by **Samuel** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:00 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by lyonnete:
Iain,

I've actually tried to make a 'fighting kirtle' My pattern was based on the work of Robin Netherton, but with a knee-length skirt.

Bad news: without the weight of a full skirt, the kirtle bunched up uncontrollably when laced tight. I couldn't bear how it felt, or how I looked in it, and so it went onto the scrap pile. Alas!

(Now, if I could just convince the marshalls to let me fight in a dress!)

Warm regards,
Lyonnete<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you where talking about going to hose instead of jeans... what about sewing points on the kirtle and eyelets to the hose so you can tie them together and keep the kirtle from riding up??? course you may get a wedgy if you put points down the back and tie it tight. when you bend over the kirtle would pull on the back of the hose.... (ok points on the sides of the thighs, that would work)

IainMcClennan · Post by **IainMcClennan** » Wed Feb 19, 2003 8:38 pm

The fighting kirtle would be the same thing as a pourpoint which is essentially a sleeveless cote for men. If you hang your leg armour from the bottom of the kirtle that would provide the necessary weight. The close fit of the kirtle/pourpoint will cause the weight of the armor to be supported by both hips and shoulders and eliminate the need for an uncomfortable leg belt.

You might be able to make it work with the one you already had made. Just be sure there's plenty of reinforcement around the points.

Iain

Fearghus Macildubh · Post by **Fearghus Macildubh** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 5:49 am

A thin cotton turtleneck. I'm thinking of just making a dickie out of an old turtleneck for summertime.
slainte,
Fearghus

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How long will we fight? We will fight until Hell freezes over. Then we fight on the ice.
Fearghus' Homepage

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 6:23 am

All depends on how hot it is. My gambeson is two layers of linen w/ a layer of cotton quilted between, so when it's over 80F i dont wear anything under it. When its below 80F i wear a linen St Louis shirt from Historic Enterprises underneath.

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Otto von Aachen
Kingdom of the Outlands, Canton of Hawks Hollow

Edwin · Post by **Edwin** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:39 am

Currently I wear T-shirts.

As money allows this spring, I'll be purchasing linen to use in garb, and for a tunic to wear under my kabadion.

lyonnete · Post by **lyonnete** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 2:24 pm

Why no dress? Well, I was told it would hide the height of my knees, and hence would be an unfair advantage (I could call shots low that weren't.)

But now that you mention it, pointing my demi-kirtle to hosen sounds like a GREAT idea. (Head thunk. I coulda had a V8!)

bwa ha ha ha ha this is good. This is going to be good. With my new gambeson, woo baby! Thanks guys! (Running with fevered pace to the sewing room! Now I'm thinking about re-working the pattern to be more 'male'... it'll still support what I got... aw yeah. And that'll take care of where/what to point the hosen on anyway!)

Thanks!
Giggling madly,
Lyonnete

Jean Richard Malcolmson · Thu Feb 20, 2003 2:28 pm

If you will follow the link to Sir Cyf's dress you will note that it is cut at a fashonable diagonal which shows her knee armor in the front.

Regards,
Jean Richard

]I)ongal · Post by **]I)ongal** » Thu Feb 20, 2003 3:00 pm

When I fight in my early period stuff, I wear a long tunic which stops just above the knees, but I have seen folks add a strip of trim on linger tunics which marks the leg the same way.

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]I)ongal

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:26 pm

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 2:26 pm

adamstjohn · Post by **adamstjohn** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 4:56 pm

A light cotton roll-neck long-sleeve sweatshirt. In the summer I soak it first.

Cheers

Adam
/aethstan /sca drachenwald

Bob H · Post by **Bob H** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 7:56 pm

I wear an arming coat, without other garments under it.

Dmitriy · Post by **Dmitriy** » Thu Mar 06, 2003 8:00 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by lyonnete:
Why no dress? Well, I was told it would hide the height of my knees, and hence would be an unfair advantage (I could call shots low that weren't.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That doesn't fly.. you can also call shots light that weren't. The whole point is that blow-calling is on your honor.

Vogeljager · Post by **Vogeljager** » Fri Mar 07, 2003 12:55 pm

I've seen vikings wearing "pavilion Pants" to hide their leg armour. I didn't know they had legs, let alone knees. A dress should pass too (as long as you don't trip up in it)

What's good for the Gander is good for the Goose..

Oh yeah.
I don't wear anything under my gambeson.