Aventail that looks like a coif

Mega Zenjirou Yoshi · Post by **Mega Zenjirou Yoshi** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 6:36 am

For Norman and other European kits of 11th through early 13th cent., has anyone done this?

I see alot of aventails suspended from early period helms to hide the SCA protective, non-period parts, but they all seem to have a full mantle attached. This blends in if it lies directly over a hauberk, but doesn't look as period draped over a surcote.

Does the full mantle increase the ability of the maille to function as a gorget?

Would I need a better gorget if I were to shorten an aventail so that it was just long enough to tuck under a surcote?

Is there some issue with tucking the aventail under the collar of a surcote? I don't really recall seeing it done, which makes me wonder if there is some functional problem I am missing.

losthelm · Post by **losthelm** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:37 am

Part of the concern is the tailoring of the surcoat.
Adding a layer of mail changes the sholders and neck opening quite a bit more then you would think as the mail flexes.

Another big one is the ease of takeing the helm off for breaks with the mail under the surcoat it makes for one more step.

The way the avintail works in the SCA for neck protection to deflect/absorbe the force of a blow relies mass: a shorter, lighter avaintail absorbe less energy then an avaintail with more rings.

As to being right or wrong to have an avaintail over just a surcoat it depends on the time and region. Avaintails where used long after hauburks when out of style.
It becomes more confuseing as the avaintail might be representing a standard or a mantal two different pieces with different shapes that usualy endup the same on the SCA list.

A lot of people that wear avaintails in the SCA do so because they feel very restrictied by the garment. They use the avaintail as an alternative to the cervical collar feeling of an ill fitting gorget.

Mega Zenjirou Yoshi · Post by **Mega Zenjirou Yoshi** » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:13 am

Well my target date is 1210, so surcote is pretty much required, as is the impression of the coif being integral to the hauberk.
Perhaps I will reengineer the shoulder seems of my surcote so that they are joined with velcro. That would allow me to easily cover the mantle portion of the aventail, and would increase the illusion of it being a coif under my crusader cap. It should also maintain the gorget replacing protection of the maille.