Leather water skin?

[Varukh]

I was just wondering if anyone has a patern for leather water skins and bottles? Also what do you use to line the inside of the leather bottle to keep it from leaking or absorbing the water inside it. I have seen them posted on the archive before, just now wanting to make one.
thanks!
Varukh

[Karen Larsdatter]

http://moas.atlantia.sca.org/wsnlinks/i ... &catid=532

[Varukh]

those links are pretty helpful, but most of the pictures were not working. any others you know of that might have some pictures of some more of the patterns?

[Milan H]

Line them with either brewers pitch or bees wax. I use roughly a 50/50 mix. Basically I melt the pitch, and add just enough bees wax that the mixture is not sticky when its cool.

As for a pattern, take a sheet of paper, folded in half the long way. At the top, put a mark about 1.5 inches in from the crease. That is the edge of the bottle neck. Mark in about 3/8s of an inch in from there, towards the crease. That's your inner seam allowance.

I attached a partial pattern. I promise that my patterns are original for each client, so I can't give you more. The red is the crease, the edge of the paper is the 1.5 inch mark. The line around the outside reinforces the handle or spot for the cord to pass through. The second line of stitches defines the shape of the bottle.

The neck measurements I have given you are for a bottle pattern that is rather large, about the size of a sheet of paper. Draw smooth swooping curves on one half of the pattern, then cut it out. Unfold it, and see if you like the look. I admit, it usually takes me several hours to get a pattern I really like, but you may get it on the first shot.

For some more images, Click on this link


Hope thats helpful for you.

Cheers,

[Varukh]

great stuff so far. Just curious, how do you get the rounded shape of the bottle? I mean how do you round out the middle part that holds the water? also what do you use for a cork?

[Varukh]

oh...and....where do you get the pitch?

[Kilkenny]

great stuff so far. Just curious, how do you get the rounded shape of the bottle? I mean how do you round out the middle part that holds the water? also what do you use for a cork?

Once the pieces are sewn together, you soak the leather in water until it stops bubbling. Take it out, poke a finger in the top where the opening will be, and blow into it. This will get the shaping process started. Next, you stuff the bottel with something, like sand, or small shot, or even plastic bags, that you can pack in tightly to push the bottel out and give it form and support while the leather dries.

You want to use something that will not absorb moisture, so I recommend against using rice, or dried peas, even though they're a good size and consistency to start out - they're likely to get messy when you try to get them out of the bottel and they've absorbed some water...

For a stopper, you can use a cork, or a rolled up strip of leather can make a nice stopper, or you can carve one from a bit of wood.

[Jestyr]

I've always heard sand is a good thing to use, but that seems like a bad thing to use with something you will eventually drink out of. Does all the sand come out easily?

[Varukh]

well i actually found a really good tutorial today on youtube today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wan0xS6Izk

its a six part video on how to make a leather canteen. the videos are long, but seem really informative.

I am still unsure of where i can get the bees wax and the pitch though. (for a decent price that is)

[Milan H]

http://jas-townsend.com/ for both the pitch and wax


There is really no need to use leather as thick as that guy did... The wax will help harden the leather up. Too thick, and it will be durable but it wont stretch like you would want, which reduces capacity. 1/8th inch thick leather would be a good choice IMO.

Cheers,

[Varukh]

well the leather i have is really thick, but it is what i have. going to give it a try and just see what happens. I may use a skiver and thin the leather in the middle to make it stretch a little better.
just cut out the bottle pattern tonight and got all my holes for my first round of stitching, next the inner stitches and the shaping. will post pics when i have something worth showing.

[Kilkenny]

I've always heard sand is a good thing to use, but that seems like a bad thing to use with something you will eventually drink out of. Does all the sand come out easily?

All, easily? Not really. I wouldn't think a decent grade of sand was really a concern, especially since you're going to be heating the thing and sealing it after the sand has been removed.

But, because I didn't care for dealing with the sand, I've generally used left over plastic bags from the grocery store. They don't absorb water and are easy enough to shove in and fish back out with a coat hanger wire hook.

[Varukh]

wyat do you use for a stopper? I have seen wooden stoppers, but i dont want to make a wood stopper that will leave a taste in the water. What is a good wood to use?

[Alric of Drentha]

The pitch will leave a taste in the water - you won't notice anything the wood leaves in comparison.

[Varukh]

is there anything other than pitch that you can use that wont leave a taste?

[Kilkenny]

wyat do you use for a stopper? I have seen wooden stoppers, but i dont want to make a wood stopper that will leave a taste in the water. What is a good wood to use?

chuckle. You're putting the water in a dead animal's skin and you're concerned about flavor from the wooden stopper ?

Brewer's pitch adds a flavor you may or may not notice and may or may not like. Beeswax adds a flavor you may or may not notice and may or may not like. Food grade silicone won't flavor your water, but you don't want to get into that process - expensive, time consuming and demanding.

A number of woods are used for making barrels precisely because of the flavor they add to their contents. Pretty much any oak, Beechwood - those are what come to the surface of my mind right off.

[Varukh]

right on. thanks.
and as promised....here is a pic of how much i have done so far.



next soaking and packing with sand. Hopefully have that done by this weekend.

[Graham Ashford]

I hate to say it, as I generally like historical stuff ... but ... a friend made something similar to these and used the innards of a camel pack drinking bag to ensure the taste of the pitch etc wasn't there. Made him feel ill, but I have never found it to be a problem, I guess its just luck of the draw ... or fill it with beer and the taste issue starts to get less (with each sip).

[James B.]

Varukh

I know that shape you are using is popular but I have never seen a historic example from the Middle Ages like it; the Renaissance yes but not the Middle Ages. I have a PDF with two historical examples one with a similar shape the other is a barrel style costrel:

http://www.historiclife.com/pdf/Flasks.pdf

[Kel Rekuta]

is there anything other than pitch that you can use that wont leave a taste?

And beeswax doesn't? Everything you put in it ends up smelling and tasting a bit like honey.

I really don't know where people are buying pitch with a strong scent & taste. I bought a bucket of refined pine pitch from JAS Townsend a couple years ago and it only has the faintest scent of pine when its hot enough to flow. It has no taste at all and as a brewer, I take pride in a well tuned palate. People must hear the word "pine" and imagine it. Sheesh.

BTW, I bought a 5gal bucket for resale and not a single customer has mentioned an odious smell or taste from the pitch. It is a bit sticky when applied too thickly.

To answer your question though... carve a stopper from poplar. Most cask bungs used in the brewing trade are cheap white poplar. Its easy to drill for the spile and easy to crack out to clean the keg. Just about anything will work fine as the leather will conform to the stopper.

A rolled up leather stopper seems to have been common in period. Logical too since medieval leather workers tend to work leather and not wood. They sent out for lasts instead of carving their own. Guild boundaries and all that...

[Varukh]

hanks for the PDF James, the only reason i made this one in this shape is because it is my first one. didn't really want to try the barrel type costrel until i had tried a simpler form. I do plan on making one like that eventually though.

And thanks Kel for the tip.

[Varukh]

soaked and sand packed.



packed it pretty tight tonight. I may let it dry and then re soak and pack again to expand the chamber a little more later this week. using scrap leather for a stopper for the time being.

[Kel Rekuta]

Drying leather will shrink a bit. Just soak the whole thing again and jam more sand in. When you hear the seams creak, wait a while - too fast and POP! Much disappointment will ensue.