new to sca and getting armour...

Lejun · Post by **Lejun** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 11:43 pm

I was wondering if anyone had any dealing with Ashcraftbaker armourers? If so what was the outcome? I'm outfitting my lady and don't wish to have her turn into a vegtable. So any and all help in getting to a inexpensive but good quality armour will be greatly appreciated. Yes, I know that inexpensive is going to be a limiting factor, but trying to get started into the sca has been one big shopping spree....which she has been enjoying.
Thanks in advance,
Lejun
ps: sorry if this isn't the proper place for this, just seems there is a lot of sca'ians in this room.

Cedric · Post by **Cedric** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:07 am

For the price, their stuff is well made and protective. The people I know that bought from them said that they filled the orders quickly.

Not a bad choice for inexpensive armor.

Gypsy · Post by **Gypsy** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:15 am

Hey Lejun

Check out my auction..I have several fine

used pieces that I'd be willing to deal on.

Where are you located?

Welcome to the board

regards
Gypsy

Juan Santell · Post by **Juan Santell** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:00 am

Check Ebay, just do a search under sca armor.

------------------
The Artisan Formerly Known As Willing Pell.

Vladimir · Post by **Vladimir** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:06 am

be careful of what you get off of ebay though. Especially the helmets. Many say SCA legal but are not legal for SCA combat.

Cedric · Post by **Cedric** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 5:49 am

There is a lot of stuff on ebay that is simply Ashcraft Baker stuff at higher prices then you could get just by buying directly off their webpage.

Ebay is not a good place for beginners to buy armor-- unless they really know what they are looking for..

Otto von Aachen · Post by **Otto von Aachen** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:12 am

Ill second what Cedric said-stay away from Ebay until you've got enough armour experience to know which deals are worth the price. My first set of armour was all Ashcraft Baker, and their armour is pretty good for the price. Only problem i had was that everything was made just a little too big for me. That wasnt an issue for most of the pieces, but the gorget wasnt ever usable, and i had to play around with the arms quite a bit(eventually removing the rearbrace) before i could make them work. Their helms are fine(with enough padding), and ive got no complaints about the legs, breastplate or gauntlets.

[This message has been edited by Otto von Aachen (edited 04-29-2003).]

Apollonia · Post by **Apollonia** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:16 am

I have recieved basket hilts from my hubby, and Sir Axel. They were Ashcraft/Baker, and purchased with no problems.

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:23 am

My only comment is that AshCraft Baker uses spun domes for their helms. While many people have happily and successfully used spun domes for years, I always ack the question, why protect an egg shaped object in a round container? There are other armourers who sell HEAD SHAPED helms out there. Just my opinion.

mattmaus · Post by **mattmaus** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:31 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Morgan:
My only comment is that AshCraft Baker uses spun domes for their helms. While many people have happily and successfully used spun domes for years, I always ack the question, why protect an egg shaped object in a round container? There are other armourers who sell HEAD SHAPED helms out there. Just my opinion.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I assume that for the most part this is where the appearance issue comes in too. Truthfully, if you split the domes and cut about an inch out of the center, they can be made to fit better, and look better.

From what I've seen Ashcraft-Baker doesn't do this on most of thiers.

Otto von Aachen · Post by **Otto von Aachen** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:34 am

Morgan, I agree with you about spun tops in general, but this is supposed to be an inexpensive starter helm. While their might be someone out their selling a raised helm for under $100, i havent run into them yet.

Lejun, if you can afford it, consider getting a "good" helm to start with. You can get a cheap spun top that doesnt look all that historical and that requires a lot of padding as a starter helm, but if your just going to end up getting a new helm in another year or so you might as well get a nice one to start with, providing you can afford it. What style of helm were you looking at, btw?

ironmongermisc · Post by **ironmongermisc** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:39 am

Spuns are the best to start in, as they are inexpensive and that's what a newbie wants as they are not sure about being in combat,, they have yet to be bitten by the 'bug',,and they can always resell it to another newbie when they upgrade, or donate to the group's loaner pile,,,

Elias mac Griogair · Post by **Elias mac Griogair** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:12 am

Lejun,
for what its worth I have a helm made by Ashcroft Baker that I am well pleased with. considering the price it is one of the best that I have had so far.
as far as the rest of their armor I can't say but at least the helms are good. one thing that you need to watch is the space between the lower bar grill and the neck/throat area on mine I needed to add a piece to cover that area.
what ever you find I would STRONGLY recomend a STEEL or other solid METAL gorget,best with two or three lames attached.

Elias

Lejun · Post by **Lejun** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 9:29 am

Wow, thank you everyone. I wasn't steered wrong when give this site for help. Again, thank you.
To answer a few questions...
1)The style I want to have (eventually) is one with a top that slops down and the point is slightly forward.
2) Someone mentioned going inexpensive due to not knowing if we are going to like the fighting, which is very true. We've been told by members of the local sca to go with something inexpensive, suggested ACB items. We've been knocked in the head w/a helm, but haven't fought yet.

Again, thank you for all your inputs and helpful info.

-Lejun

Hubert · Post by **Hubert** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:11 pm

I currently use a lot of ashcraft baker pieces in my kit. Mostly because when I started I needed to put a kit together cheaply and quickly to get on the field (I'm a little big for most loaner gear).

Personally I think the majority of it is quite well made for the cost.

Morgan has the right of it with the helms, I use one of their spangens and while it certainly does the job well I am hoping to replace it in a year or so with a better one more suited to my persona and also built for me. However as a newbie/starter helm I think it's great.

The only thing I wasn't too thrilled with were their full gaunts (the cheapy set).

As starter gear they're great (I use the 5-lam elbows and knees), and I expect to get good usage out of mine until such time as I rework my armour (and I need to rework most of it, it's godawful).

------------------
Hubert d'AiguÃ«s-Mortes

Lejun · Post by **Lejun** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:45 pm

Oh, here you all go. Is it better for us to get the round or go for the conical. The conical is more "egg" shaped than the round which may be better?
Again thanks for the help.
-Lejun

LutÃ¶lf von Aachen · Tue Apr 29, 2003 1:51 pm

Here's the kit I made with my set, and like other I too wanted to put my own kit together (the loaner gear was way too small)and get out on the field as quickly as possible...
[img]http://ella.slis.indiana.edu/~mstamper/sca3.jpg[/img]

My arms and legs are splinted and they attached very easily to the knee and elbows.
I'm wearing a loaner helm in the image because the local Marshal said that the spuntop that came with the set had:

1. too much of a gap in the back

2. needed the side plates either rivited, or welded, and

3. the grill guard didn't come down far enough (I have a long neck I guess, so the gorget that came with everything else was useless...)

Other than that everything works and fits fine, and I am happy with my purchase...

L...

freiman the minstrel · Tue Apr 29, 2003 3:33 pm

Don't skimp on a helm.

there are several reasons for this.

first, your helm is already the most expensive portion of your gear. It will be the LAST portion of your gear that gets "traded up". Buy a helm that you can "grow into".

Second, Your helm is the most noticable portion of your gear. It is the shiny part that everybody notices. Buy a helm that will look cool, you can't cover it up with cloth.

Third, you don't have an extra brain.

I have heard some great things about Ashcraft/Baker. The ONLY criticism I can remember hearing is that they use spun domes almost exclusively. Thus, Buy all your other gear from Ashcraft/Baker, and buy your helm from somebody else.

Just my two cents.
f

Cedric · Post by **Cedric** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 6:20 pm

Ok, I just glanced at there Helmet page, the first two (the cheapest) are made from spundomes. There are six models that are NOT spundomes, and one thats its hard to tell.

One of my friends bought their cheapest (spundome) helmet. For the price, and what she wanted it for (give to 16 yo son to see if he wants to fight) it was perfect.

--

That said, I would agree about buying a good helmet to start with. AB stuff is a great value, but I would personally spend a little more and get a good looking helmet that fits you right (buying helmets through the internet is a risky business - what fits most people may not fit YOU).

hjalmr · Post by **hjalmr** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 7:49 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by freiman the minstrel:
Buy a helm that will look cool, you can't cover it up with cloth.
[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why not?

(^_^)
PS: Glad to hear your coming back to the states -hope to finally meet you in person.

------------------
Hjalmar of Sognefjord
House Bearkiller
Barony of Grey Niche, Meridies.

"True nobility is not measured by being superior to another, but rather by becoming superior to oneself."

muttman · Post by **muttman** » Tue Apr 29, 2003 8:26 pm

I will agree on the helmet issue- if you have the bucks to drop on a good helm, do it right the first time. Even if you later decide to go with something else, a better helm will hold more resale value if you take good care of it. Case in point, My newest newbie is getting herself a stainless White Mountain Armoury helm soon and she`s less than ten times in armor. She can`t wait to get it.
As an aside- until recently, if one didn`t have the cash to drop on a good hat straight out, I have been an advocate of spundomes as a good temporary fix. I have however been hearing some reports of people getting hurt in them. Not a lot but enough to rais eybrows a bit and watch for trends. I most certainly do beilieve it has something to do with the "protecting an egg shaped object with a round one" thing.
Food for thought.
John

Lejun · Post by **Lejun** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 3:24 am

Ok, well I understand and appreciate the concern about the head gear. We simply can't afford $300+ on one item (actually double that for us) at the moment. I really do understand the concern, we just simple want to get out there...see if we like it. Taking a well placed shoot and becoming a "spundome statistic" is something of a risk, but so is doing a misjudged block and getting injured. We've agreed that if its not for one of us or both of us we'll donate the helms and other items to the barony.
We'll order the conicals and go from there. Most of the other armour we need is being supplied by our barony loaner gear. The only things we're going to get, besides the helm, is metal joint protection.
Thanks you all,
Lejun

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 9:26 am

There's a pretty f-ing huge gulf between spun domes and raised helms. It's not like I said, "Don't get a spun dome. Spend a thousand dollars on a raised carbon steel sallet with brass embelishments." Sheesh. I just said that your head isn't round, so why protect it with a round box? THere are PLENTY of armourers who sell HEAD SHAPED helms in the SAME price range as Ashcraft Baker.

Lejun · Post by **Lejun** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 11:39 am

whoa Morgan. One of the reason I hesitate writing on these forums is that you can't "hear/see" tones/expressions. I'm not upset or miff'd over anyones suggestions. I'm new. Plain and simple. The problem w/being new is that I don't know how to search the vast net for deals. I found ACB by accident. I've checked White Mountian cause someone posted that name. The other problem is that I don't have time to sit and go over every last armour site that comes up w/keyword. I was told about this site.
hmmmm...ok I see a mistake I made...sorry, see new post (what to freshen this up a bit)
-Lejun

Morgan · Post by **Morgan** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 7:33 pm

Smiling.

I wasn't arguing with you, actually. I know you're new, and that's cool. Everyone has to start off new.

I was arguing with Otto's statement many posts back where he said "Morgan, I agree with you about spun tops in general, but this is supposed to be an inexpensive starter helm. While their might be someone out their selling a raised helm for under $100, i havent run into them yet."

I'm just saying that his statement is a little like if you said you were hungry, and one person recommended McDonald's. Then I came along and said, "Why not get yourself some REAL beef?" And someone else replied with "You know, the best steakhouses in the world selling Kobe Beef aren't exactly cheap. That's like over $500 a plate." There's a whole world of affordable beef in between a Micky D's burger and a Kobe steak. There's a world of affordable hats between the cheapest Askcraft Baker spun dome and a raised helm.

And everything anyone says about an AB helm holds true if you spend just a LITTLE bit more and get a head shaped helm. You'll get your value back out, but you'll have a helm that fits BETTER WHILE you're using it, and a helm that LOOKS better WHILE you're using it, and a helm that people will WANT to buy from you when you're done with it, and you'll be selling a newbie a used helm that looks better on the field than a spun dome monstrosity. It's a win-win-win-win situation.