I have been incensed with the "Hero" St Maurice ar

[MJBlazek]

Thank you Mr. Capwell....

So yes I have been totally enthralled with this armour as of late and have contemplated doign somethign along the same lines.

What I wonder is this: We all know that the torso secton of the armor is a brigandine, with a plate piece worn over it.
Woudl there be a way to cut down on weight to have a faux "bringandine" that is attached to the breast peice?

Also how would one go abotu creating the brigandine portion?
WOuld you sew everything up and rivet the plates to it, then hand sew on the lining peice?

All thoughts on this are welcome.

MJ

[Baron Alcyoneus]

I think that your best bet would be to make a jacket of cloth, with plates in the areas you desire, and wear it like that, rather than trying to attach it to the BP.

[MJBlazek]

I think that your best bet would be to make a jacket of cloth, with plates in the areas you desire, and wear it like that, rather than trying to attach it to the BP.

I was conemplating that as well...
while I would not be adverse to owning a whole brigandine, I just don't want to spend the time nailing all the plates to it!

[Sean Powell]

I don't see how a 'belly voider' of brigandine plates riveted to nice velvet and sewn to a leather strip riveted in place with the smae rivets that hold the brass trim would be that much heavier then a fake version. If anything I would be concerned that the lack of stiffness would cause the fabric to hang wrong. Get a few plates of 4130, pop some holes in them, lay in a gentle curve and send them out for heat-treating. Doesn't seem like a show-stopper to me.

If the idea of riveting in a bunch of brig plates is daunting then I assume that weaving maile or planishing and polishing a breastplate is equally daunting. To me that's part and parcel with armoring. There is always repetitive work to be done.

Sean

[MJBlazek]

I don't see how a 'belly voider' of brigandine plates riveted to nice velvet and sewn to a leather strip riveted in place with the smae rivets that hold the brass trim would be that much heavier then a fake version. If anything I would be concerned that the lack of stiffness would cause the fabric to hang wrong. Get a few plates of 4130, pop some holes in them, lay in a gentle curve and send them out for heat-treating. Doesn't seem like a show-stopper to me.

If the idea of riveting in a bunch of brig plates is daunting then I assume that weaving maile or planishing and polishing a breastplate is equally daunting. To me that's part and parcel with armoring. There is always repetitive work to be done.

Sean

But it is a belly "voider" I am talking about. I have no problem with one of those, it is an Entire Brig I baulk at...

Liek this would be
[img]http://www.armourarchive.org/patterns/brig/16thBrig.jpg[/img]


And yes, for the most part doing somethign like weaving mail holds no interest for me. Mush like art I can appreciate the skil and time that goes into it, but that doesn't mean I want to do it myself.

[Sean Powell]

But it is a belly "voider" I am talking about. I have no problem with one of those, it is an Entire Brig I baulk at...

Sorry, I apparently misread your original post.

What I wonder is this: We all know that the torso secton of the armor is a brigandine, with a plate piece worn over it.
MJ

I'm curious why 'we all know' that this is plate over a brig. I don't know anything of the sort. I don't see any portion of a brig protruding around the neck or armpits. I see no reason why I should assume that the brig portion is intended to extend even a short distance past the steel.

I see 4 possible construction scenarios:

1) A plate reinforce worn over a brig in which case the brig is light enough that there is a need for a reinforce plate to support a lance rest which is what you propose.

2)That this is primarily a brig with fabric and small plates covering the entire back but an exposed chest piece similar in construction to those german COP's with the chains on the chest.

3) That is is a hanged back and breast with a brig fauld attached to it.
(I THINK I see the hinge in the very back edge of this picture but it could be an odd reflection)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/platform3/ ... otostream/

4) That this is a hinged back and breast worn over a separate fauld. There are documents that list faulds separately from curiases as part of castle inventories.

Of these I favor 3 and then 2. There is a line of brass rivets above the bell that I would use to secure a leather strip. Likewise I would secure another strip around the lower edge and hide the rivets in the brass edging. Then I would stitch the brig portion in place to the leather like a helmet liner is stitched in. The brig portion would open at the right side with buckles just like the back and breast plate do.

I might wear it over a full maile shirt but more likely I'd mount the red tabs and maile skirt to tabs that get pointed to the same garment that supports my leg armor.

I believe that the painting is allegorical in nature and despite the phenomenal reflection that strongly suggest the artist had a well-polished breastplate and some models to work from, we don't know that the breastplate was this EXACT suit or if it was something more mundane that was later dressed up or maybe just a portion of armor that had some brig added to make it look more fantastic. As we don't have an extant piece the exact construction details will always be open to speculation.

...at least that's the way I see it...

Sean

[Baron Alcyoneus]

Why does the armor anger you so, anyway?

[MJBlazek]

Why does the armor anger you so, anyway?

cause *ahem Golum voice* I wants it... I needs it..... my precious....

[Sam O.]

Sorry to derail the thread for a bit, and sorry if this seems a bit like a naive question, but ever since I first saw this brigandine, I have wondered what the plate set-up would've looked like for the lower half. I'm trying to imagine where all the plates would be placed, but I keep getting thrown off with the clusters of three rivets.
I was thinking that some plates might be trapezoidal in shape, which could explain the three rivet clusters, but there always seems to be an obsolete rivet, decoration perhaps?

Here's the link just to help anyone out.
http://www.ageofarmour.com/instock/heroic-armour.html

Any help would be appreciated.

[Sean Powell]

Sorry to derail the thread for a bit, and sorry if this seems a bit like a naive question, but ever since I first saw this brigandine, I have wondered what the plate set-up would've looked like for the lower half. I'm trying to imagine where all the plates would be placed, but I keep getting thrown off with the clusters of three rivets.
I was thinking that some plates might be trapezoidal in shape, which could explain the three rivet clusters, but there always seems to be an obsolete rivet, decoration perhaps?

Here's the link just to help anyone out.
http://www.ageofarmour.com/instock/heroic-armour.html

Any help would be appreciated.

There are other extant brigandines with tri-foil rivet head spacing. The typical arrangement is for 6 or 9 rivets per plate with 2 near the edge and 1 farther in. It seems to be an aesthetic choice rather then durability unless the effort was being made to ensure that not all rivets would be on the same tear line.

Rivets in lines is a later period choice as simultaneous with the decrease in plate size until triangles are no longer feasible.

Sean

[Sam O.]

Thanks for that explanation, Sean. The way I was thinking about it was if each plate had a rivet in each corner and that was it.