Fiebing's oil vs alcohol Black

[waveicle]

I have always used Fiebing's USMC black alcohol based dye combined with Leather balm/atom wax. I was told that the oil based would do better in the outdoors as far as running. Even though the alcohol based hasn't been a problem for me, I tried to switch over to Fiebing's Oil based black. So far the color depth isn't there. I have more "white and blue" than the spirit based. Should I just keep adding coats? Can I get any more depth by doing a coat of alcohol based at this point or is it too late?

Waveicle/Diedrich

[Kilkenny]

Sorry, no experience with the oil based black. The spirit based USMC Black has always worked fine for me, and without running concerns...

[Brennainn]

If you like spirit dye go ahead anbd use it. Just remeber to condition the ever loving pooh out of the leather when you are done.

[Kel Rekuta]

I've been using Feibing dyes for about thirty years. Once I switched to Pro Oil dye, any problems with streaking disappeared. Then again, I always give the piece a quick wipe with a slightly damp sponge prior to dyeing. If the piece was handled a lot, a good wipe with deglaser to get out oily transfer from my hands then the sponge.

If oil dye isn't penetrating the leather evenly, don't add more dye. Go over the whole thing with solvent to blend in the base coat. Sometimes that does the trick. The most common problem in leather dyeing is using too much dye. Over-dyeing looks good until it dries leaving an excess of pigment particulate on the surface waiting to get picked up by everything that touches the piece, regardless of how many top coats you add. Top coat picks up pigment in solution and spreads it around. Not helpful, try to avoid it.

This is so common a problem: if I had a dollar for every time I explained this in the store....

[Russ Mitchell]

Any particular solvent you recommend?

[Kel Rekuta]

Fiebing product?


or more generic products like denatured alcohol, isopropyl, diluted acetone. If you aren't in a rush for it to dry - mineral spirits. Be sparing, don't wash the job down with the stuff!

The theory is this - dyes are aniline pigments of some sort dissolved or suspended in a solvent carrier. Different solvents evaporate at different rates and therefore penetrate leather fibre at different rates depending on the density of crust at any point on the leather surface. Surface treatment and handling affect penetration as well. Alcohol solvents penetrate and evaporate quickly, sometimes unevenly. Mineral solvents tend to dry more slowly, some very slowly. (i.e. Stoddart fluid in shoe polish)

The solution to spotty dyeing? Prep the leather surface to remove barriers to penetration. Moisten the crust slightly to retard excessive penetration in spongy areas. Apply dye with a large swab, dauber or better yet spray it on with even strokes from a fine tip. Do not over-dye or allow pooling of dye. Rub down the surface before it dries then leave it alone to dry completely. Buff with rags to remove excess pigment from the surface. Seal the surface with whatever suits your needs. It isn't rocket science but neither is it as simple as spreading butter.

Good luck!

[Kilkenny]

Just a quick note of appreciation to Kel. We're really lucky to have him around here sharing his expertise.

Deglaser.. big can of the stuff.. never been opened ...chronic problem with streaky dye jobs (even with the oil dyes).. might want to try using the deglaser, huh?

[waveicle]

Thanks for the info. I didn't do any pre treating. I thought my material was fairly clean to start with though. I'm not having much spotting occur, just poor depth across the piece (long belts.) What I'd really like to know is how to improve or recover the materials that I've already started. I think I'll just start experimenting with cleaning and more dye(s). Maybe cleaning would help with a second coat?

Regards,

W/D

[Cian of Storvik]

I've had similar lifeless/shallow color from institutional leather dyes. I won't buy them again. I think the Pro oil dyes are really for pros as well. I only used it once, but didn't like it (medium brown). The spirit based dyes seem to be kinder for those of us that sort of slap on the color and hope it looks good, and the majority of the time we don't manage to mess it up.
The spirit dyes are easy to thin as well. I've used water and isopropyl alcohol and both work well with the fiebings alcohol based dyes.
Yesterday I dyed a handle of a sword hilt (pigskin) using ironically a dark brown fiebings dye reduced with isopropyl to try to get a more caramel or british tan color. It came out pretty good. Once again, an example of the stuff being sort of idiot proof. If I wasn't going for a mottled look, I would have dampened the leather first and would have used a bit of water to reduce the color.
I think you could be okay using the spirits black over the oil based black if you hadn't over-done it with the first application. Black atleast will be the most forgiving.
Leather is great stuff to craft with.

-Cian

[Brennainn]

Institutional dye is what it says it is. It is a leather dye for an institution. Like a prison or mental ward. It doesn't have a lot of the nifty chemicals that help regular leather dye work well.

[waveicle]

I think I'll switch back to the USMC. My results were good before. In the future I it wise to preclean with some isopropyl alcohol.

W/D