SCA Hearldry question

[Edward MacTavish]

Does the SCA still check conflicts with modern organisations and historical arms, or do they just check within there own records?

Edward

[kegage]

To my knowledge, the SCA College of Heralds checks mostly against famous and well known heraldry both real and fictitious outside of the SCA. Arms of Emgland, flags of countries, famous personal arms and badges. heraldry mentioned is stories like "Lord of the Rings", etc.

Kevin

[Thomas MacFinn]

I believe the way that they handled it was to take several well known real-world devices and 'register' them in the SCA database. So a search through the armorial will find entries like:

France, Ancient
The following device associated with this name was registered in December of 1994 (via Laurel):
Azure semy-de-lis Or.
Important non-SCA arms

[ursulageorges]

A little bit of SCA history here: once upon a time, the College of Arms protected any heraldry that was used in SCA period. The proposal to stop doing this was known as the "Modest Proposal"; it was implemented in 1995. Since then, the SCA has only protected real-world heraldry that it considers especially important. As Thomas notes, these devices are often listed in the Ordinary and Armorial.

--Ursula Georges.

[kegage]

SCA Historical Heraldic Rumor- The SCA College of Heralds applied to be affiliated with the English College of Heralds. The SCA submitted all the necessary documentation, rules of submission, etc. After a lengthy period of time the SCA was told that while the ECoH was impressed with what we were doing, and commended us for our efforts, we were not up to their standards, and denied us affiliation status. However, they did like a couple of procedures, or rules that we had, so they were going to adopt those, but still deny affiliation. That is when the SCACoH declared "heraldic independence", and would no longer check all "mundane" heraldry for conflict.
I put this in the category of "rumor" because I remember the announcement, and I talked to several SCA heralds and one then BOD member, and got, essentially, the same story, but I was never able to get any kind of "official" verification.

Kevin

[bigfredb]

It depends, but they do check modern organizations as well.

My badge submission was rejected because it was too much like a military badge. Oh well . . .

[ursulageorges]

SCA Historical Heraldic Rumor- The SCA College of Heralds applied to be affiliated with the English College of Heralds. The SCA submitted all the necessary documentation, rules of submission, etc. After a lengthy period of time the SCA was told that while the ECoH was impressed with what we were doing, and commended us for our efforts, we were not up to their standards, and denied us affiliation status. However, they did like a couple of procedures, or rules that we had, so they were going to adopt those, but still deny affiliation. That is when the SCA CoH declared "heraldic independence", and would no longer check all "mundane" heraldry for conflict.

That is, indeed, pure rumor. Hadn't heard that one before!

The way the English College of Arms works is that you give the heralds a whole lot of money and they make up arms for you. The English College of Arms processes far fewer submissions than the SCA does, and doesn't have the same elaborate rule structure; they just put two line drawings together and see if they look "different enough".

Ursula Georges.

[kegage]

That is, indeed, pure rumor. Hadn't heard that one before!

The way the English College of Arms works is that you give the heralds a whole lot of money and they make up arms for you. The English College of Arms processes far fewer submissions than the SCA does, and doesn't have the same elaborate rule structure; they just put two line drawings together and see if they look "different enough".

Ursula Georges.

Yeah, that's what I thought at the time too, but I kept hearing it so I tried to check it out. I could never get a definative confirmation or denial. So, I put in the category of really interesting historical curiosity, and hoped I would find out for real one day.

Kevin

[Donal Mac Ruiseart]

In the English College of Arms and the Court of the Lord Lyon, you don't get to choose your design, either. The heralds take your input and then design your arms as they see fit.