Type of leather for spaulder articulation

[Kendrick le Oggesfot]

I was wondering if someone could tell me what kind of leather I should use to articulate spaulder lames?

Thanks.

[Konstantin the Red]

Not too durn stiff -- about five- to as thick as seven-ounce. Cut from the belly portion of a half-hide, not the spine part, as that will be stiffer. For any extra strength you think you need, cut the strap wider across. Generally these run an inch to inch and a quarter wide.

[Pitbull Armory]

Hi, I like Konstantines suggestion of using the belly area of the leather, that would be close to the same as using buff leather like they did in the old days. Just make sure you stretch the strips all the way out before you hang your lames on them.

Another way is to double up strips of 3 oz upholstery leather, so its as strong as 5-7 oz leather but moves like 3 oz leather.

[Kendrick le Oggesfot]

Perfect, thank you both. I also was wondering about riveting. I haven't peened my own rivets before & read the how-to's on here (doesn't sound terribly difficult), but which would be more appropriate to attach the lames to the spaulder- copper or steel rivets? I imagine the copper would be a little easier for a noob, am I correct in this assumption? Also, If I use a steel rivet with the rounded head as opposed to one of those copper ones with the flat head, what could I use for an anvil? I have no armoring supplies, just my mitts & a ball peen hammer.

Sorry for the noob questions

[Pitbull Armory]

Howdy, no problem on the noob questions. We are all noobs in some way. In the pic ive used aluminum pop rivets, I smashed them flat after I popped them in place. A more historicly correct way of riveting them up is to take a roofing nail with the head on the leather side, clip it flush with the plates surface, and peen on the outside of the plate. You can use any large piece of metal for an anvil, even a sledgehammer head, metal dumb bell, vice, or back of vice.

Take care

Pitbull

[Kendrick le Oggesfot]

Oh interesting pop rivets. (I've been out of the SCA for 10+ years so please forgive my ignorance) Do the pop rivets hold better than the cheap 2 peace nickel plated type (I don't remember what they're called) you purchase at the leather shop which you set with an anvil & setter?

I have a few things I can use as an anvil for the flat rivets/roofing nail, but I'm more wondering about the steel rivets with the domed head, such as the type I see on helmets. Is there something readily available I can use that won't crush the dome?

[Sean Powell]

The 2 piece rivets (IMHO) are mildly acceptable for things in shear like belt-loops or leather on leather connections but don't hold up well to tension loads. People have reported using them successfully on Brigandines and Coats of Plates but they are more expensive then buying a box of nails so I've never done so myself.

A pop rivet should hold about as well as any other aluminum tubular rivet. The "popping" does deform the head region like a peened rivet but it will never be as strong as a steel rivet... Then again you aren't holing a steel bridge or skyscraper together, just armor. The rivet connection only needs to be slightly stronger then the strap and preferably easy to get out and replace after the strap is blown.

You can buy pop rivets and solid aluminum rivets in many of the same industrial catalogs that sell copper, brass and stainless rivets. I like the copper and brass when the rivet head is going to show and can be used as a decorative element but for spaulders the rivet head can be on the strap side and peened on the plate but hidden by the next plate up. If a rivet isn't decorative and seen I'd just as soon grab a box of short roofing nails (boxes are by weight so more short nails per box) and use those. Caution: some will have a sharp edge of flash on the bottom. I usually throw those back and grab another but by the bottom of the box I grab a block of scrap steel with a loose hole, set the nail in, smack it and compress the flash. Works plenty well enough for me.

As a side note for everyone who is wondering where my geeky reply is, here it is: Aluminum likes to rust, QUICKLY. most aluminum you see is covered by a thin layer of aluminum oxide which is non conductive and rusting is an electrolytic process. The aluminum oxide keeps the aluminum underneath from rusting away. Steel on the other hand rusts slowly but iron oxide is conductive so rust never stops forming. WHEN YOU COMBINE THE TWO, the steel acts like a giant antenna picking up and loosing stray electrons, in the process of splitting O2 and forming rust. The moment it does so the Aluminum which is trying to rust but can't because it of the aluminum oxide say "I WANT THAT ELECTRON" grabs it back from the steel, shifts an oxygen molecule deeper into the aluminum oxide layer and picks up an extra one on the outside. (Zinc does this too only more so which is why sacrificial zinc plates are used to keep steel from rusting.) I have seen some funky white aluminum rust on things like chicago-screws for helmet straps because the leather holds the sweat with the salt and the salt ions contribute to the electrolysis process right next to a big helmet shaped antenna. They can rust shut and not unscrew in 6 months and in 2 years I can have been able to yank an old strap off a helmet to replace it rather then drill it out.

Thankfully spaulders aren't as likely to get sweat soaked as helmets.

Good luck and happy hammering!
Sean

[Thomas MacFinn]

I used stainless steel rivets and very quickly learned that you want rivets that are softer/weaker than the material you are attaching them to. If something hits just right and rips out a rivet, you want the rivet to be ruined instead of the ripping out a bigger hole in the lame. The rivet is easier to replace.

[Kilkenny]

Copper rivets would be very out of place on spalders. I would second Pitbull's suggestion of the roofing nails. Flat head on the inside, pien the shank on the outside.

Domed rivets you want to set using something like a tin block on your larger anvil. The rivet dome will push into the softer tin, but the tin gives enough support for you to pien the shank. A piece of hardwood can work, or some brass scrap (I've done it because that was what I had around).

Also, if you use a light leather and stitch it together, flesh side to flesh side, you get something that is stronger than leather as thick as the doubled piece. Chrome tanned or latigo holds up better in this kind of application than does veg tanned, which will tend to dry out and crack - and mold/mildew too.

[Kendrick le Oggesfot]

Great, Thanks for the tips everyone. I will practice with the roofing nails tomorrow \m/

[Oddvarr]

You can also use some thick scrap leather between the domed rivet head and your "anvil" surface, which will keep the rivet from getting a flat spot.

Two piece pop rivets are pretty strong, (the ones with the internal stem not the cheapo leather ones ) and they are used for all sorts of applications on aircraft, but not when shear strength is critical.

Typical use includes holding together fiberglass cowlings to aluminum framework, so aluminum on aluminum, which prolongs the life of the part from avoiding the dissimilar metal thing that Sean was referring to.

A way to avoid corrosion is dipping your rivets in a corrosion preventive compound (CPC)(or rubber based two-part epoxy) before installing them, then after "wet installing", wipe away the sqeeze out. Internally you can leave a coating on the fastener, 'cause nobody will see it. This prevents the salt solution of your sweat from interacting with the dissimilar metals. You can do this with chicago screws too.

Another important thing to note about "pop-rivets"...one should be careful about the length of the shank protruding through the materials to be secured together. If you get too long of a rivet, it could fail when you set it with the "stem puller"...too short and it doesn't grip properly.

You will find that using the nails option for rivets is easier, and stronger, as long as you cut the shank of the nail to the proper length before you start hammering it down.

Good luck,

Oddvarr