Lacing or buttoned sleeves for fighting

[Baron Alcyoneus]

I'm making another Tasha pourpoint to fight in. I want the forearms fairly snug, since they'll be under leather or metal vambraces (and I'll probably do steel in them as well). I certainly don't want buttons under the elbow, so I'll start any buttons or lacing closer to the wrist than that.

I'm not putting any batting in the garment except for the forearm. I'm thinking about putting some there, but about 1/2" inside the edge so that there is less to sew in the seam. I'm using the pull-on forearm pattern, so I'll probably have a little room for overlap and still have the lacing/buttons (and I'm aware that there are civilian styles where the undertunic is visible through gaps in the laces)

So I'm looking for practical experience with either method, recommended spacing, gaps, etc.

[Sean Powell]

I bought a gambeson that had button sleeves and a frek shot drove the nub on the back of the button into my Ulna. Hurt like a MoFo. Never again. My current gambeson is falling apart but had a section of boot-lace closure. At a certain point I got a knot in the lacing and resorted to just pulling the free ends to tighten and skipped the bow-tie. It stayed tight enough while fighting but could be loosened quickly by a tired fighter who needs to shed heat. It's what I plan on doing on my next gambeson.

Sean

[Tailoress]

If the pull-on piece fits snugly, then yeah, I'd use that one, but if the button-up one is the right kind of snug, why not use that one? If you put a lace in, I'd recommend it be done in the spiral pattern (shown in the instructions for the center-front lacing option), with an extra-long lace, so you can just loosen it and not have to relace every time you get in it.

The spacing doesn't have to overlap much, if at all. The two edges could simply abut, or have a 1/2 inch overlap. You sure the button-up pattern isn't better, given your desire for a snug fit?

[Tailoress]

Also, the spacing between lacing holes can be pretty big on a forearm. Say, 1.5 to 2 inches apart on each side. The idea with spiral lacing is that the holes are staggered or offset across from each other, so your lace never has to skip over a very large swath of unattached fabric.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

I'm not sure which pattern I used the first time, but between the lining and batting, I had to open it back up and add an inch or so of extra material. Both forearms, which haven't been getting much use lately, are over 13", which seems to be pushing the limit for the button forearm pattern. I just measured my first pourpoint, and flat they are about 6.5" wide, they are a little more than snug. It looks like the pull on will fit that part of the forearm just about right with one layer of batting. It tapers down to about 6.5" at the wrist bones- and it is a lot easier to cut off than add on.

[EnglishSteel]

Anything small and nasty that can be driven into you by a blow or just your harness playing silly buggers is a bad idea for me. Tie closures ftw! Besides, I like the way the aiglets clink...

[Brann mac Finnchad]

I was thinking the same thing on buttons hurting under armor.

A question of mine is would it be possible to put the lacings on the inside of the forarm for ease of fastening--yes I realize that it's not period (I'm thinking from a practical standpoint), but is it even possible from a tailoring standpoint?

[Albrechtthesilent]

Make cloth buttons. Ease of a button, no ouchies.
You can make them with a disc inside (wood or plastic, etc.); if you want to go super snug in your fit, that'll make it beefy enough to not slip back through the hole.

Albrecht

[James B.]

I have tight fitting armor I prefer to lace the arm shut so it is flat. Pull on sleeves need room for you to get it on easy and that will create loose material that is a pain to deal with when trying to put on tight fitting armor. That is my experience.

[Galfrid atte grene]

I spiral lace my arming coat sleeves (wrist to mid-forearm). Low profile, and keeps the sleeve tight.

[Mac]

I have used hooks and eyes for closing arming doublet sleeves. The Gaston Pheobus hunting manuscripts show hooks and eyes of a surprisingly modern shape on riding boots. If you could not bear the stigma of having bought them from Joannes', you could bend some up out of half-hard brass wire. Miniature brass rod stock (3/64" or 1/16") from your local hobby shop should work well.

Mac

[Baron Alcyoneus]

That had not occurred to me at all, I'll have to think about that. It would make it pretty easy to close up w/o help at all. I think the first period hook&eyes I ever saw was in Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion, and I was very surprised at how "modern" they were. But like many things, since it wasn't broken, they haven't seen the need to fix it during the intervening centuries.