Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....

[Vitus von Atzinger]

I simply can't deal with anyone who cares that much about their hair.

[Kormak]

I simply can't deal with anyone who cares that much about their hair.

like !

[muttman]

West Coast is putting out some fabulous armour and a good quantity of it too by the looks of things on Facebook. (Yes, I "liked" WCA FB page some time ago- armour porn is armour porn)
Two questions
A) How much progress has Brand made in clearing up his old que? To the people from that list whom He has squared away, do you feel like, even with the wait you are happy with the ultimate outcome?
B) There is a lot of talk here about Brand, even some approaching the point of speaking on Brands behalf but near as I can tell there is nothing on the AA from the man himself owning up, explaining or apologizing as appropriate. Whats up with that?
I'm shopping around for new gear for myself as I find after ten ish years in basically the same kit its time for an upgrade and I'm shopping around for (good and nice, not entry level cheap) armour for my lady who wants to start fighting.
I really like the look of some of the stuff West Coast (or Amourguild, or whatever other name or broker He's selling stuff under) makes but without A and B above being satisfactorily addressed I can't in good conscience spend my money knowing or even thinking it might wind up in his pockets. This, sadly, has me steering shy of other respected armorers I know who have brokered his stuff without open disclosure as to its origins.
So, yeah. How "right" has He made things in the last couple years since He last rehung his tarnished shingle?
What are you doing to fix things Brand?
Thanks

[PatternWeld]

Let us not forget what Brand himself wrote in 2009...

This is not written as a "Knight" of the SCA, but as a guy who's simply had his fill. It will be irrational of course as most emotional digressions are. So forgive the following rant but there's a certain point where even I have to vent:


You snivelling fucking jackals...

That's right, you little shits that I owe nothing to, yet have to continually pop off with your pretentious comments.

I have let your comments beat on my psyche like hammers these past two years. I have let my trials beat me into such a deep depression that cost me much and almost everything, but no more. You wonder why so many people who fell behind or fell on hard times left the armouring market and the SCA altogether. It's because of loud mouthed geeks such as yourselves.

No more for me. I owe people money, about 26 people, and it is they who have something to bitch about. I have fulfilled HUNDREDS of orders and now owe 26. Most I owe a few hundred to, some 500, a few 800 and a few a thousand or a little more. It's a lot of money, I know.

But I am $46,000 in debt and lost my house so you jackals can fuck off!

Now the people that I owe have an email address, refunds@westcoastarmor.com to send emails to with their refund amounts and contact information. That is the only option for me and a way that I can send what I can, when I can to the right people instead of fooling myself that I will ever be able to make their gear.

Also...

I DO NOT HAVE A FUCKING SHOP YOU IDIOTS! So quit talking about how I should make their stuff...shut the fuck up! I cannot work out of my garage and only managed to get one helm done before the HOA shut me down!

And for those who think that I should not go see my friends at an SCA event or practice occasionally...what fucking genius you must be to think it smart to rob me of some motivation due to my love of the SCA. When I go to events I am not secretive about how bad I feel about my burden. I do not deny it.

I tell you, some of you guys are real pieces of work. Those who have never achieved much, who have always worked for someone else, who have never achieved an amount of true success or even mastered true skill at arms or armouring. You feel that you have the right to judge me? Perhaps it's because you bought nice armour from someone and dress pretty? Or perhaps because of you level 80 WoW character? Or perhaps you live in some fantasy 24/7.

Seriously, a lot of Internet courage going on here. I will be glad to meet any of you with stick or steel so that you can attempt to achieve some sort of satisfaction, if that's what you'd like. I would not recommend it, but if that is what you wish I am sure a lot of people would like to watch.


So onto Lawsuits... What an asinine thing to say. When you risk nothing by suggesting such and action that would cost others so much. There has never been intent to defraud anyone and as such cannot be proven. As a matter of fact I still have enough documentation and hundreds of people who have received armour from me over the years to demonstrate that business was conducted and completed up until things started to fall apart. Takes a real genius to come up with a scenario that makes things worse for everyone.

Such stupidity is inherent in Internet forums, the archive being no different.

But seriously, I refuse to let you idiots put even more duress upon the incredible weight I feel every day from this. You have no grasp of what you do or what truly happened. So I drop the yoke of your opinions and do bit you a fond FUCK OFF!



So now that I have vented I feel a little better. My friends will be shocked as I have always been very slow to anger and mellow about things.

So many whom have achieved much fell into debt and bankruptcy. Abe Lincoln took 17 years to pay off friends and family after his business failed and he went bankrupt. At least 3 Presidents, many founding fathers, many of the wealthiest business people and accomplished minds, artists, writers, etc... found themselves at one time or another filing bankruptcy. They felt like shit, just as I do, but went on to do great things. I do not pretend to be so great, but I will persevere as they did.

To my former customers, I do sincerely apologize for having so incredibly failed at armouring, my responsibilities and my business. I was a pretty good armourer but an incredibly shitty businessman. I never intended for you not to get your orders nor take so long to pay you back. I continued to borrow funds from friends and family to try and recover things, but ended up screwing that up too. Now I am just getting on my feet with my first job in 19 years and these shit heads would like to kick my feet out from underneath me. That I will not allow. So please, send in your email to refunds@westcoastarmor.com with your contact information and amount owed to you.

Man I feel better I had to come back, sorry, but I will not be back to this thread again.

-Brand

p.s. Now I am sure that the Internet bravado and self righteousness will run rampant after I post this. Many will pop off with fabulous remarks I am sure will be worthy of the greatest of wordsmiths. But when your ready to put your body to the hazard to back up your mouth, just jump up and down until your balls drop and then come see me, I will be waiting. Afterwards I will even help you up off of the ground, brush you off and apologize for having given offense.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

So the difference between him and Brian Price is the volume of the larceny, and Brand claims to not have done it intentionally? With a pattern of behavior that says...

[Jareth]

Oh, hey...It's been two months since I offered an update, I suppose that I might as well bump this thread up.

Last I heard, my order was scheduled to be completed by the end of July. Of course there has been no product delivery, updated schedule, response to e-mails or any other contact. Heh.

I do, however, have some hopeful news to report. The backorders list finally been changed. In 5+ years, I've gone from number 7 on the queue all the way down to number 6! W00t!

[Ziad]

I am sure that this will make you feel better

Time Frame

Q. After I order a Built to Order item when will it be ready?

A. When it's Ready.

Yes, seriously... When it's Ready...

Armouring takes time, physical effort and artistic inspiration... not something that can be rushed or stamped out by a machine. We also have full time day jobs. Armourers quote time frames for completion all the time and are almost never right. I have been very guilty of this in the past, so I won't make the same mistake again.

So while we may quote you a couple weeks or a couple months on an item, the real time when your piece will be done is When it's Ready.

This is why we do Zero Down on most orders, so we're not pressured to rush projects and you can cancel items before they enter into the build stage if it's taking too long for you. It also allows us to choose what to work on and when so our Build Queue flows smoothly. Another win/win situation.

Morally, this guy should be working his day job and any armoring whatsoever - any - should be done to satisfy what he OWES. Not what he wants to work on. Not armor for somebody else. His situation was his own fault; if he had cleared that all up more quickly, by now he might not have it still hanging around his neck like an albatros. But he has managed to displace it all, with righteous anger onto others.



Z

[Romulus_Rapax]

So, I sent Brand a picture of the West Coast greaves I added brasswork too, and they are posted on his facebook site right now.
I'm famous!
I hope I get my helm soon, so I can brass it up also.
I will also send him pics of it when it is done also.

John Coons / Romulus

[Jareth]

Oh, hey, it's been another month.

Is anyone willing to place a guess as to the current status of my order? I'll give you a hint: My order was placed with West Coast Armoury.

That's the only hint you should need.

[The Iron Dwarf]

does this have anything to do with the temperature of the underworld?

[KeggeR]

Sorry I got married and life got busy, FYI brand did deliver my order within 2 months on time and within original budget.

Here are the pics
http://i.imgur.com/9bcZ9eE.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/sgKwnW5.jpg

[Romulus_Rapax]

KeggeR, I'll bet you didnt pay up front, did you?

[twoswords]

I am glad for you KeggeR.

My order was paid in full from start and its now going on five years and change. I have received...nothing.

[muttman]

Well, it seems that He doesn't actually give a damn beyond lip service about making his past do right. Thats really shitty since He's making stuff for new customers and taking on new commissions. I love some of his work but I'll be goddamned if He gets one red cent of money from me and that includes anything He's brokering through a different seller. I'll advise everyone around me of the same. There are armouers out there as skilled as him who also, somehow manage to make the stuff they said they would when they said it would be done and I will gladly give them money for their art.
Its just a shitty way to do business, to hell with him.

[CiaranBlackrune]

I almost died laughing a couple of weeks ago when he tried to give me "advice" on being chivalrous.

I wonder if a class action lawsuit against him would do anything. I have little experience with the law, but it appears that the guy has assets that the people he defrauded might be able to go after.

[coreythompsonhm]

I will never buy from this guy, even if he ever makes good on what he owes to people. There are others I'll gladly support and do business with.

[Daithi' ua Conri']

Well it seems this thread I started so long ago is still kicking. As of now I have been sent photos of my replacement armor that I elected to take instead of the helm I originally ordered. Brand asked for an address update which I gave him ten days ago. As of yet no armor but I will post if it does show up.

To think I might receive my back order from Brand before my back order from Jackie at Shamrock. (Though in fairness Jackie has come through on the helm but there were some measurement issues that were my fault so he has had to do remakes, it has just been quite awhile 3+ years on the remake. Jackie has though always been good about communication which makes me MUCH more understanding and willing to wait.)

Edited to give Jackie his due and provided relevant details.

[Meyrick vom Tal]

I am ashamed to be human to read the sarcastic and cheap shots thrown around in this thread with even more inconclusive but knife sharp assumptions

Im sure every conceivable warning has been given to not buy from West-coast, the message has been recieved loud and clear thankyou.

this is turning more and more into a circle jerk than anything else...let this thread die, it is boring and is nothing to do with the Classifieds anymore

but by all means carry on if you think its the chivalrous thing to do.


M

[The Iron Dwarf]

you do not think newbies should be warned then?

if someone comes here in a few weeks to say they sent brand several hundreds bucks and have nothing and no reply to messages you will think it is funny?

this thread keeps on being bumped both as a warning and to spread the news IF people owed stuff actually get it but you think that is bad I expect

[coreythompsonhm]

As you probably did not notice, several people post updates on this threa, or lack there of, so others who are in the same boat/thinking of getting into the same boat has current information.

+1 on what Iron Dwarf said

[Aaron]

Protecting your fellow human beings from evil knights is the core of chivalry. Not giving up until the fight is won is another noble virtue.

We will carry on because it is the chivalrous thing to do. To do otherwise would be curlish and self-serving.

We do not do this because we are owed. Rather we owe society a fair warning against those black knights who oppress others and call such theft and bullying chivalry.

I am ashamed to be human to read the sarcastic and cheap shots thrown around in this thread with even more inconclusive but knife sharp assumptions

Im sure every conceivable warning has been given to not buy from West-coast, the message has been recieved loud and clear thankyou.

this is turning more and more into a circle jerk than anything else...let this thread die, it is boring and is nothing to do with the Classifieds anymore

but by all means carry on if you think its the chivalrous thing to do.


M

[bigfredb]

I am ashamed to be human to read the sarcastic and cheap shots thrown around in this thread with even more inconclusive but knife sharp assumptions

Im sure every conceivable warning has been given to not buy from West-coast, the message has been recieved loud and clear thankyou.

this is turning more and more into a circle jerk than anything else...let this thread die, it is boring and is nothing to do with the Classifieds anymore

but by all means carry on if you think its the chivalrous thing to do.


M

The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance. ~Socrates (469BC - 399BC)

[Baron Alcyoneus]

It isn't like they're kicking a man when he's down.

He's down the street at the bar drinking other people's money.

[muttman]

It isn't like they're kicking a man when he's down.

He's down the street at the bar drinking other people's money.

There it is.

As I said earlier, I liked his FB page because armour porn is armour porn and He makes some sexy stuff...for new customers....while his backlog sits......
Seems like I see a lot of new stuff being posted there for these new customers. While his backlog sits.....
As someone who has been screwed pretty hard by an SCA armourer myself (years ago and he's no longer making stuff at all, for anyone so no need for names here) its a pretty touchy subject for me and a situation I'm happy to help others avoid. Furthermore, I have friends on his backlog list who continue to be screwed (while He makes bank on new orders) and that makes it a little more personal to me.
If shitting on Brands name as a business man helps folks avoid that trap then pass me the burrito grande platter and clear out.
And yes, I absolutely think alerting folks looking to part with some of their hard earned money about a predatory "businesses" is "the chivalrous thing to do". If helping to keep this thread towards the top of the list aids in that goal then I will continue to do so.
I'll also add that his goal date for having that backlog list blank was October 2013. As of right now, 10/22/13, there are still 24 names on that list. Not a whole lot of activity.
But lots of new stock and lots of new customers walking away with shiny, new gear.
I'm curious Meyrick vom Tal, what is your logic behind doing otherwise? Why is your council to let it die? If the thread is so boring to you then why click on it and not just keep scrolling on by?

[hjalmr]

I also agree with bumping this thread.

I have also been on the receiving end of getting robbed by armorers and it is the whole reason I started making armor! I only started selling armor because I made something that didn't fit me or it didn't come out as desired. It was then that I realized I could help those who needed cheap "get on the field" armor.

If an armorer has a reason for making armor for someone, while ignoring the backlog then they should explain themselves -that would be the honorable thing to do. Right now I am out of stainless and need $300 to buy more. I have 3 stainless steel helmet back orders, but I am making mild steel helmets in an attempt to get the money for the stainless steel. I told my customers and none of them complained -one even thanked me for the update. Now if I was selling off stainless steel helmets and not filling my back orders - I would expect everyone to pass the warning around to avoid me. I would deserve it!

On another note:There have been times when I have gotten lazy, been depressed, etc, and let orders slide. Someone would post a bad thread about me and it would forced me to get off my ass and get the job done in order to protect my reputation and honor. Not to say every transaction ended happily ever after, but I do make the effort...

So there are many reasons to post armorer warning -as long as people don't flame someone to death. Its one thing to complain about someone, and quite another to post several paragraphs of curse words and threats.

Anyway I have rambled on enough...

[CTrumbore]

I am ashamed to be human to read the sarcastic and cheap shots thrown around in this thread with even more inconclusive but knife sharp assumptions

Im sure every conceivable warning has been given to not buy from West-coast, the message has been recieved loud and clear thankyou.

this is turning more and more into a circle jerk than anything else...let this thread die, it is boring and is nothing to do with the Classifieds anymore

but by all means carry on if you think its the chivalrous thing to do.


M

Uhh.. Holding a "knight" up to ridicule and exposing his behavior is EXACTLY WHAT CHIVALRY IS when it's truthful.

[hjalmr]

I am ashamed to be human to read the sarcastic and cheap shots thrown around in this thread with even more inconclusive but knife sharp assumptions

Im sure every conceivable warning has been given to not buy from West-coast, the message has been recieved loud and clear thankyou.

this is turning more and more into a circle jerk than anything else...let this thread die, it is boring and is nothing to do with the Classifieds anymore

but by all means carry on if you think its the chivalrous thing to do.


M

Uhh.. Holding a "knight" up to ridicule and exposing his behavior is EXACTLY WHAT CHIVALRY IS when it's truthful.

Holding "ANYONE" up to ridicule and exposing his behavior is EXACTLY WHAT CHIVALRY IS when it's truthful.

Well actually I disagree with the ridicule (making fun of someone or mocking them). I feel that ridiculing someone is NOT chivalrous. An honorable person should be able to expose the truth without lowering themselves to such tactics.

(^_^)

[CTrumbore]

Trunuff.. I just get SOOO tired of the "You can't say anything bad about that dude.. it's not chivalrous".

that's not at all what chivalry is about. If we were truly chivalrous, Brand would get weekly woodsheddings until his accountability improved, or everyone got paid back.

And they would be pay per view, with the proceeds going to refund people.

ETA: you are correct, ridicule was probably the wrong word choice. Shame would be a better one.

[muttman]

[quote="CTrumbore"]Trunuff.. I just get SOOO tired of the "You can't say anything bad about that dude.. it's not chivalrous".

THANK YOU!!!
Glad to see I'm not the only one. And its not just in regards to the topic at hand. it seems the "chivalrous card" is becoming the SCAs version of politically correct censorship.

[Paladin74]

So maybe everyone who has a dog in this race needs to saddle up and make a trip to Brand's shop. I think, with the amount that's owed and the amount of time that's passed - they should show up on his doorstep.

[Dougal Forester]

I heard that Facebook recently dropped their privacy protections for accounts. I'm surprised that brands personal, business, and school site on Facebook are not hit with multiple comments about this 2008 list. If I were owed a helm I'd be bitching daily.

[Jareth]

Bumpity bumpity bump.

Another month with no product, no updated status or delivery date, no response to e-mails.

[thunderwinde]

I heard that Facebook recently dropped their privacy protections for accounts. I'm surprised that brands personal, business, and school site on Facebook are not hit with multiple comments about this 2008 list. If I were owed a helm I'd be bitching daily.

Just to clarify, Facebook did not drop all privacy settings for accounts. What they did was remove the specific setting that allowed you to stop people from searching for your page by name.

[CiaranBlackrune]

Bumpin' because I still see people plunking down money on custom stuff from West Coast.

[PatternWeld]

https://www.facebook.com/countbrand.oflancaster

Check this out... dude is bragging about being too busy remodelling his kids room...

Must be with the extra $$ he's making from doing business with Ice Falcon and selling armour like mad.

Still haven't seen that line of folks he owes armour or refunds to, shrink.

Must be nice to be a rip off artist and still have folks fall over to make excuses for you, do business with you and help you rip off a whole new crop of suckers. The real eye roller is how this goes on while he runs a "School of Chivalry".

Makes me throw up a little in my mouth in disgust.