Anouther set of promises from Westcoast....

[Joseph D]

snip..

I totally agree. What also isn't helping either is his enablers, they just keep buying his stuff.

[Romulus_Rapax]

Update.
I got a picture of my helm today from Brand.
Its welded up and ready for the grinding and polishing.
Hope to have it before too long.

[PatternWeld]

I'm beginning to wonder if negative word-fame is having an impact?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Medieval-splint ... 3387702816

They clearly state in the ad "crafted by the talented smiths (NOT BRAND) at West Coast Armoury"

[Paladin74]

Here's the updated link for that particular ad, w/a price drop to boot:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221320281311?ss ... 1555.l2649

And yea, I'd imagine that it makes a difference- since Jim Shepard (Gunther of Orkney) actually made those during his short stint w/WCA. At least it makes a difference to me.

[Belemrys]

Man I wish I was the right size for that set...a tad too small, for 350 that is a bit of a bargain no?

[Paladin74]

Yes, especially considering the zero wait time as well as knowing that the money paid never went and is not ever going to Brand @ WCA.

[Daithi' ua Conri']

Well after more years and time than I want to think of.....

The replacement armor substituted for my original helm arrived last night. The armor itself looks nice enough but at this point I am just glad that it finally made it in some form or another. For those who are still waiting for stuff, stay on him. He sent me messages that he was done including photos and then over a month passed with no change. He did not answer any e-mails sent during that time but once I pointed out that he had removed my name from the back order list and not shipped anything. A month after that e-mail he actually shipped them. So still not pleased but this is at least something.

[Sevastian]

Well after more years and time than I want to think of.....

The replacement armor substituted for my original helm arrived last night. The armor itself looks nice enough but at this point I am just glad that it finally made it in some form or another. For those who are still waiting for stuff, stay on him. He sent me messages that he was done including photos and then over a month passed with no change. He did not answer any e-mails sent during that time but once I pointed out that he had removed my name from the back order list and not shipped anything. A month after that e-mail he actually shipped them. So still not pleased but this is at least something.

Pardon the aside, Lord Daithi but will you be able to attend Winter Coronet? We've crossed rapiers, but haven't fought in armor. I look forward to an opportunity to fight you on the Heavy field!

[Daithi' ua Conri']

It is my hope to attend as winter has brought me more time to spend on SCA. Unless a major hurtle jumps up I also plan to be at Eskalyan Yule and will likely bring my kit along as well.

[Iacobos]

Glad you got your armor. Out of curiosity why has Brand not been sued and/or formally chastised by the higher ups of Caid and the SCA? I would banish him from my court if I were King. Or is that not allowed in this case?

[Yojimbo]

Dude im glad you got your stuff.

[The Iron Dwarf]

Glad you got your armor. Out of curiosity why has Brand not been sued and/or formally chastised by the higher ups of Caid and the SCA? I would banish him from my court if I were King. Or is that not allowed in this case?

maybe they do not believe what he has done is dishonorable

[PatternWeld]

I doubt that to be the case. Fact is that Brand is former royalty in Caid and that covers a LOT of bad behavior. He's a very talented artist and fighter but i very much doubt they'd pull his belt or sanction him for bad business practices. Folks simply want to believe that a knight and former king can do no wrong. Sad but true.

[Iacobos]

If they don't believe that what he has done is dishonorable then they clearly are ignoring the situation. I have heard that he is reviled within the Kingdom. I would never kneel before such a "king" and I certainly would never address him as sir. Same problem with IceFalcon coming on here and trying to justify buying from him. There are armorers out there who could meet his standards and we all know that Brand is incompetent at best and most likely just a scam artist. I say remove his belt and take away any privileges associated with having won crown. He can have it back when everyone gets their stuff.

[Duke Icefalcon]

If they don't believe that what he has done is dishonorable then they clearly are ignoring the situation. I have heard that he is reviled within the Kingdom. I would never kneel before such a "king" and I certainly would never address him as sir. Same problem with IceFalcon coming on here and trying to justify buying from him. There are armorers out there who could meet his standards and we all know that Brand is incompetent at best and most likely just a scam artist. I say remove his belt and take away any privileges associated with having won crown. He can have it back when everyone gets their stuff.

OK. I realize you don't know the whole story so I forgive you for misunderstanding. Despite the fact that we occasionally sell a helm that Brand made, we have been working with him to make sure he continues his work on his que. As many of you know, I run Team USA. Brand wanted to join us and I told him he had to finish up his que before he could join us. It is not in my best interest to have him finish his work as people might buy from us instead. That being said, we do it because it is the right thing to do. Good for you all and good for him to finish his work. You can check with Gunther of Orkney to see if what I tell you is true.

Happy Thanksgiving all-

[Baron Alcyoneus]

Yes, especially considering the zero wait time as well as knowing that the money paid never went and is not ever going to Brand @ WCA.

And how can you be sure? It is sort of like saying "made by the talented mechanics at Yugo (but not Yugo)".

Advertise under your real name, or whatever, but if you're advertising under the name of the thief, you get the reputation of the thief.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

Glad you got your armor. Out of curiosity why has Brand not been sued and/or formally chastised by the higher ups of Caid and the SCA? I would banish him from my court if I were King. Or is that not allowed in this case?

There are 3 levels of banishment possible, the lowest level is "from the Crown's presence", and they can do it for pretty much any reason, for the duration of their reign- if they so choose.


http://sca.org/docs/pdf/govdocs.pdf
1.
Lesser Royal Sanctions
A Lesser Sanction may be applied for any reason the Royalty deems just and appropriate, as long as the
maintenance of the realm is not impaired, and the general requirements for Royal Sanctions are met
.
These Sanctions continue for the stated duration of the Sanction or until the end of the reign, whichever
comes first. Lesser Sanctions are:
Banishment from the royal presence requires the banished person to make every effort to stay
away from the issuing
royalty, and precludes attendance at court or the exercise of any privileges of
rank or duties of office which would require interaction with the royalty.
Prohibition from the Wearing or Display of the Insignia of the Realm precludes the sanctioned
indiv
idual from wearing or displaying any badges or other armory specific to the realm or any of its
branches, awards, or orders. This specifically does not preclude the wearing of peerage badges, as
they are registered to the Society and not to specific kingdo
ms.
a.
Notification
The sanctioned individual, Kingdom Seneschal, Society Seneschal, and appropriate Board
Ombudsman must be informed in writing within ten business days of the specific cause and occasion
of the sanction.
If the Royalty of a Principality i
mposes a Lesser Sanction they shall also notify the Crown and the
Principality Seneschal.
b.
Review
Royalty are granted broad discretion in the imposition of Lesser Sanctions
.
The Board will not
automatically review Lesser Sanctions; however, members may ap
peal a Lesser Sanction to the
Board as provided in Corpora I.C.3

[The Iron Dwarf]

so how much shorter has the list got of those waiting for armour?
is there progress?
a few have been here to say they have what they ordered but is the backlog down by 10%, 25%, 50% and over how many years is that?

it may be that Ice is doing what he sees as the right thing and im not arguing with that, it may be that brand is thumbing his nose at you all.

IMO he should be ashamed of what he has done and have no claim to be chivalrous until after the last debt is paid off and even then he should start at the bottom.

it is none of my business, im not a customer, not in the SCA but if you want to claim that you as an organization hold honour as important then surely he should behave with honour or be held in contempt by others, I would not call him sir, I would not bow, at best I would ignore him but it is your society for you to run as you see fit.
it would mean I would consider the low morals of members if i thought about joining.

just my 2c

[GuntherofOrkney]

I can confirm what Icefalcon is saying. Sure Ice is making money but he has bills to pay and he does plenty enough with the ACL that is a strain on his time and resources and can only do soo much for 1 man.

I know when i worked with brand we were doin back orders because people were contacting me and i would put the order on our to do list and it would get made. Now that I dont work with brand and dont even see him anymore I have no idea what he is doin.

As for the Kingdoms involvement in this matter,I would think it would be a bad thing if they started punishing people for what they do in real life,though brand has effected alot of people that play in the kingdom its hard to take a stand against what someone does in their mundane life. This then would give people the right to punish individuals because of seemingly minor things to some but it might be major things to others.

[coreythompsonhm]

I believe Brand+ ankle shackles + all tools and materials within reach = no more back log

Oh, and food, can't forget the food. We want him to stay alive so he can make good on his back log

[Payn]

As for the Kingdoms involvement in this matter,I would think it would be a bad thing if they started punishing people for what they do in real life...

Pretty much every R&D has happened due to things that happened "in real life".

[Iacobos]

If what they do in real life is screw over their fellow SCAdians and scam them out of money over and over again while reigning as King of Caid and teaching a "school of chivalry"; then yes they do deserved to be punished within the society. His actions aren't unrelated to his membership in the SCA or his peerage, they aren't even tangentially related. They are directly related, he sells SCA ready gear to SCA fighters based on his reputation as a good craftsman and a talented SCA heavy fighter. The selling point behind every object he makes is that it is a top tier custom item made for SCA fighters who want to be the best. This isn't joe from Gleann Abhann selling cocaine or embezzling from his company. Even though I am positive that if someone was caught doing that and kicked out of the SCA no one would say anything despite the fact that those two crimes are unrelated to the SCA. Why and how can a Knight and the King of Caid be someone who uses his peerage to cheat other SCAdians out of their money and that be "unrelated to the SCA" but if someone who even occasionally sold drugs were to win crown everyone would lose their minds. Hell if a legal brothel owner won crown in Caid or the West kingdom people would shit a brick even though it's legal. This asshole cheats people out their money for years if not decades and uses the SCA to do it and somehow that's "unrelated"?

[The Iron Dwarf]

seen this thread viewtopic.php?f=20&t=166837 and I thought he owed the chinese some armour too, nukeing him is a bit over the top though I think!

[Romulus_Rapax]

Got my helmet yesterday, after a year wait.
It is one of the nicer helms I have seen.
Too bad the waits and screwings abound with this armorer.

[Paladin74]

Yes, especially considering the zero wait time as well as knowing that the money paid never went and is not ever going to Brand @ WCA.

And how can you be sure? It is sort of like saying "made by the talented mechanics at Yugo (but not Yugo)".

Advertise under your real name, or whatever, but if you're advertising under the name of the thief, you get the reputation of the thief.

I know because Jim kept in contact w/me pretty much every step of the way; I got email updates with pictures and he is the only person I dealt with. In fact, it was only because of him that I ordered anything from that site which he took in hand and when it was completed, sent me an email with tracking info. From start to finish. He gave me his word and he made good on it. That's good enough for me, even if it isn't for you.

[Baron Alcyoneus]

I just saw this on FB.

http://westcoastarmoury.com/index.php?m ... x&cPath=12

It is nice to know that he has armor in stock to sell.

[Ingvarr]

If I were Kevin P on the backorder list, I would be pretty pissed right now as he seems to owe the exact same helmet as one he has in stock.

[coreythompsonhm]

I would be sending lots of emails simply stating "Hi, this is *blank*, you owe me *piece of armour* as of such and such date, as stated by your own admited back order list. You currently have the exact item in stock. This is a not so friendly reminder to make good on your debt. You have five days to send me a tracking number of the item owed to me. If you do not comply, you will be contacted by my lawyer with whom further action will be taken."

[Iacobos]

Exactly right Corey.

[Ingvarr]

Brand already said that people who harrass him are filthy sniveling dogs and if anyone tried to sue he would declare bankruptcy and tell everyone to fuck off. There comes a time when a person shouldn't expect honorable dealings from the unarmed.

[Craig Nadler]

Armouries selling stuff below a price that would pay a living wage and going out of business with thousands of dollars of unfullfilled orders is nothing new. It has been happening over and over again for the 26 years that I've been invoiced in the SCA or making armour. People need to think beyond just price when deciding which armoury to do business with.

[Donngal]

I just saw this on FB.

http://westcoastarmoury.com/index.php?m ... x&cPath=12

It is nice to know that he has armor in stock to sell.

seems like nobody is buying it for good reason.


Im embarrassed to share the same work title of Professional Armorer.

Donngal

[CTrumbore]

Brand already said that people who harrass him are filthy sniveling dogs and if anyone tried to sue he would declare bankruptcy and tell everyone to fuck off. There comes a time when a person shouldn't expect honorable dealings from the unarmed.

Unpossible. He's a Knight of the SCA. THey are all chivalrous upstanding peop..

Oh screw it.. I can't type that with a straight face.

He's a schmuck.

[white mountain armoury]

Armouries selling stuff below a price that would pay a living wage and going out of business with thousands of dollars of unfullfilled orders is nothing new. It has been happening over and over again for the 26 years that I've been invoiced in the SCA or making armour. People need to think beyond just price when deciding which armoury to do business with.

Truth !!
I charged more than many folks making SCA armour, but was more affordable than some others.
I stood behind my work, was always available to my customers and was rarely if ever late on an order.
I closed my shop because folks just stopped buying from me.
The cheaper option is not always the better option.

[Paladin74]

lmao @ unpossible