Were there tie-back straps on bascinet visors?

[Brett H]

Hello all -

Does anybody know if it is historically accurate to have leather tie-back straps on the visor of a bascinet? Specifically, leather straps that were attached to the bottom corners of the visor itself that, when the visor was lowered into the down position, the straps were then wrapped around the main body of the helm and tied or buckled at the back. The idea supposedly being to keep the visor locked in the down position, eliminating the chance of the visor flying up during usage/combat?

I have recently purchased a visored bascinet from steel-mastery, and a number of their helms appear to include this feature (that they term "visor back fixation"). Mine has this as well.

If these straps have no historical basis, I'll remove them. I have included a photo of this idea.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

Brett

[wcallen]

I know of no historical reference for such a thing.

It is done in SCA context to keep the visor shut. For some reason modern marshals seem to care about that.

It appears that the medieval guys didn't have that concern.

Wade

[Brett H]

I know of no historical reference for such a thing.

It is done in SCA context to keep the visor shut. For some reason modern marshals seem to care about that.

It appears that the medieval guys didn't have that concern.

Wade

******************************************************************8

Wade -

I haven't been able to find any manuscript imagery or effigies which show such a strap in their details either. I half-suspected it was an SCA thing.

[Signo]

In the bascinet era, the idea was probably to detach the visor for foot combat, or allow it to flap in front of you. Latch systems are later.
Proof of this is in combat manuscripts that teach to raise the opponent's visor with the left hand to strike it with your weapon.

[Talbot]

There is no evidence for the strap of any significant value. Some visors have holes where a strap could have gone but they could easily have served other purposes.

[Ernst]

In the bascinet era, the idea was probably to detach the visor for foot combat, or allow it to flap in front of you.

It's clear from manuscript miniatures that the visor wouldn't flap. When it's raised, it stays raised. A stiff hinge that allows this does a pretty good job of keeping a closed visor closed too.

[Luca Sogliano]

Fiore shows how you can bear a man to the ground by getting him to lean forwards, and then grabbing the now extended visor and using it as a handle. I certainly take that to mean that the visor was not strapped down.

[Signo]

Ernst, no matter how stiff is a visor hinge, in combat the visor will lift from his position., but in combat only a loose hinge will permit the visor to always return to the natural position, that doen not mean you could not be able to completely open it and let it stay there when walking, riding or talking, because it very easy to give a hinge a "lockup" position simply making the cuts at an angle.
Years ago I had the chance to examine a original XIV° century keyhole visor at the Stibber Museum, and it was incredibly heavy in the lower side (more than 3 mm thick), while it's a mere 1/2 mm in the important part (eye bridge and occulars). This depend from the manufacture process for sure, but I can't think it was not deliberate, and maybe the lower weight helped it stay shut, and this requisite was apparently more important than to put a lot of metal in front a very delicate target (the eyes).

[Talbot]

Signo is 100% right with his comments