helmet in stock

white mountain armoury · Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:14 pm

http://www.thegreenman.net/wma/wmainstock.htm

knyaz · Post by **knyaz** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 4:54 pm

What makes you decide what to stock? Are these helms that were made for a customer and didn' sell? I was just wondering. I and a few of my folks have been drooling over some of your other helms, and I was wondering what motivates you to stock certain styles. Last time I checked you had a long wait for custom work.

Just wondering
Blackcross

[This message has been edited by knyaz (edited 03-10-2003).]

white mountain armoury · Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:17 pm

Why something is instock can vary, its sometimes where new styles and prototypes end up.
Often i will make several helms for events, those that do not sell at an event end up on the instock page.
I often wait to build custom helms untill i have a few of the same type, sometimes if i am building 4 spangens i will build a 5th or 6th for my instock page, its more efficient to build similar items in small runs.
An item could be a return due to many reasons.
My instock page is also whee i sell items that i felt like building, if i have to build several bascinets in a row it get bored quick, so i will build something i feel like building to help break up the repetition.
My recent kettle hats came from a need to try something diff, i may build several befor i get the one i like the most, so they end up in stock.
The conical kettle on my instock page was a result of me wanting to try some diff things, a chance to make something more obscure that the average scadian might ask for.
many many reasons.
One thing to comment on is my instock page is not a place to sell lesser quality items, if an experiment or new design does not meet my quality standards for shape/welds/polish etc it dets destroyed, custom or instock everything is of the same quality

[This message has been edited by White Mountain Armoury (edited 03-10-2003).]

knyaz · Post by **knyaz** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:58 pm

Sooooooooooo...whats the wait time now on cutom stuff? Or more precisly "order now and receive...?
Nothing against the instock stuff, but we were looking at the gogle helms with the aventails.

Blackcross
knyaz@comcast.net

white mountain armoury · Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:22 pm

I will not be building any aventail helms with occulars for quite some time. I will no longer be producing the ones with the ornate spangens.
I am not accepting any comissions at this time and will not likely be taking any for a while.

William Frisbee · Post by **William Frisbee** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 7:10 pm

BUY that kettle helm someone.

I finally was able to fight in mine this weekend. It's simply incredible. The visibility was amazing. I had my FULL range of perephial vision. Not to mention almost nothing landed on my shoulders...

Get it you WONT be disappointed.

[This message has been edited by Evil_Merlin (edited 03-10-2003).]

justmagnus · Post by **justmagnus** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:07 am

WMA, the conical kettle helm on your in-stock page is very cool. Just had to mention that.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Evil_Merlin:
BUY that kettle helm someone.

I finally was able to fight in mine this weekend. It's simply incredible. The visibility was amazing. I had my FULL range of perephial vision. Not to mention almost nothing landed on my shoulders...

Get it you WONT be disappointed.

[This message has been edited by Evil_Merlin (edited 03-10-2003).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Evil Merlin,

So did you count the shots to the brim as head shots then?

Just curious,
Rob

William Frisbee · Post by **William Frisbee** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:29 am

I'm not sure yet. I still need to fight in it more. Mostly the brim shots are just that, the brim. Sometimes the brim shots I've taken do hit my shoulder and I do take those without question.

I started with the whole, if the helm rings its a good shot, but as time goes on I may change. It all depends on how the new helm works out. If most of the shots are simply hitting the brim, I may have to start taking them so that I keep things cool with the person fighting me. If there are mostly dome shots and the occasional brim, I doubt I will take them.

Again, I'm just going to need more time fighting in it to call it.

mavrikii · Post by **mavrikii** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:33 am

Just remember that no matter what helm you are wearing, you are assumed to be wearing a open face pot helm with a nasal for SCA combat.

So even if it hits your brim, call it appropriately as the direction of the sword warrants.

Mavrikii

cheval · Post by **cheval** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 10:48 am

Mav: "Just remember that ... you are assumed to be wearing a open face pot helm with a nasal for SCA combat. So even if it hits your brim, call it appropriately as the direction of the sword warrants."

While this probably belongs on another board in a new thread, I have to ask -- why? This particular helm is native to the mail era that our "standard" -might- be based on. Must we forever stuff our medievally accurate, square pegs into the SCA's round holes just because the rules were crafted in historical ignorance? I, for one, would be more than willing to grant the advantage a brim might impart to anyone willing to wear this helm (and I think it is actually a greater liability than one might first realize). Besides, I want one, too -- and I'm so out of shape, I can use every advantage my kit can muster

... -c-

William Frisbee · Post by **William Frisbee** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:18 am

So even if it hits your brim, call it appropriately as the direction of the sword warrants.

Actually during fighter practice this past weekend I got hit three times in the head. One was a great crown shot, the other was a brim shot that skittered off the brim into my shoulder. I counted both as good. The third and final one just hit the brim and knocked my opponent off center where aporn I hit him in his head. Because the brim shot carried him off to my right quite a bit I felt that that shot would not have done anything to my physical being and the sword at no time came close to my flesh.

Again, it's going to just take time before I can say what is good and what is bad.

But I can tell you this for sure. Even though it may take me time to recalibrate due to the brim, the visual advantages and the openess of the helm overall make it well worth the effort.

[This message has been edited by Evil_Merlin (edited 03-11-2003).]

white mountain armoury · Tue Mar 11, 2003 11:56 am

This particular helm is native to the mail era that our "standard" -might- be based on. Must we forever stuff our medievally accurate, square pegs into the SCA's round holes just because the rules were crafted in historical ignorance? I, for one, would be more than willing to grant the advantage a brim might impart to anyone willing to wear this helm (and I think it is actually a greater liability than one might first realize). Besides, I want one, too -- and I'm so out of shape, I can use every advantage my kit can muster

... -c-[/B][/QUOTE]

I like your talk Chev, but im confused on the liability part.

cheval · Post by **cheval** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:47 pm

WMA: "...im confused on the liability part."

Any kind of extension or apendage can be used as a lever. Receiving an off-center shot to the brim might provide enough leverage to displace your head -- it may not be a good shot, but it could disrupt your flow and, at the worse, wrench your neck. It may also be possible to catch a rising shot that, after first striking the side of the head, gets trapped under the brim in the rebound, pulling against the chin strap to again torque your neck at an awkward angle. I will be very interested to hear the feedback over time from the people who are using these helms to see if this is, in fact, a problem for them.

Then again, maybe I just worry too much

... -c-

mavrikii · Post by **mavrikii** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:51 pm

I answered Cheval privately with a more in depth message. But essentially, what it amounts to, is that the rules are set up so that the fighting is on the same standard for all while still allowing each individual to research and dress in the manner and time period that they wish to portray.

Personally, I love the helm....it is not period for me, vut it makes me think about building a suit simply to go with it

William Frisbee · Post by **William Frisbee** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 2:58 pm

it is not period for me, vut it makes me think about building a suit simply to go with it

That is exactly what I did. I should have to full kit 100% completed within a few short weeks!

justmagnus · Post by **justmagnus** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 4:29 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by cheval:
While this probably belongs on another board in a new thread, I have to ask -- why? This particular helm is native to the mail era that our "standard" -might- be based on. Must we forever stuff our medievally accurate, square pegs into the SCA's round holes just because the rules were crafted in historical ignorance? I, for one, would be more than willing to grant the advantage a brim might impart to anyone willing to wear this helm (and I think it is actually a greater liability than one might first realize). Besides, I want one, too -- and I'm so out of shape, I can use every advantage my kit can muster

... -c-[/B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cheval,

Excellent point, if granting that advantage would bring more of these outstanding helms onto the field I would support it.

Thanks,
Rob

p.s. I definitely need one of these also

white mountain armoury · Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:07 pm

Thats what i thought you were getting at Chev.
I looked at as many sca kettles as i could (not many) and tried a few designs out as well.
I think the depth of the helm, and the angle its worn are important.
On the ones ive made so far i made the rod on the bottom of the skirt come close to the shoulders, its not enough to hinder fighting style, but it seems to be enough so that it contacts the shoulder minimizing potential neck snap.
Im putting together a circa 1375/80 fit for a pas we will be holding in my barony, i was going to build a bascinet, but instead im thinking about putting a camaile on the conical hat from my site and fighting in it.
Ill likely report my findings here. Ill be watching/hitting Evil Merlin and watching how his performs.
Im thinking about a mid 15th cent style that will be deeper, prettymuch solving the brim issue but in the looks dept wont keep the early kettle people happy

William Frisbee · Post by **William Frisbee** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:23 pm

Oh great, now Adam is getting in line to hit me. =)

Believe me all, I will be working with Adam to ensure this helm design I have works well. So far in the very limited fighting I have not run into any issues, and I am making sure I ask those I fight with about how the helm affects them.

Dagisd · Post by **Dagisd** » Tue Mar 11, 2003 9:02 pm

Adam... I have the absolute perfect answer to breaking up the monotany. Corinthian.

Corinthian. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm.

He who wants Adam's first Corinthian.
Dagisd

------------------
"One does not know, truly, what it is to stand, until one has fallen.
Once one has fallen, then one knows, you see, what it is to stand."
-Lange

Thaddeus · Post by **Thaddeus** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 9:30 am

LOL Dagisd,
I have been bugging Adam about a corinthian for a couple of years now. The reply I have had from him translates roughly as not ready yet. Apparently he feels his skill level is not yet (as of the last conversation I had with him about it) sufficient to do justice to the helmet.
I think that this means we will actually be getting Corinthians raised from a single peice of bronze and mysteriously invisisbly reinforced to make them sturdy enough for various forms of fratricidal combat.
I will then of course be forced to change from a 14th century persona to a classical greek one. Which will cause my wife to roll her eyes and throw up her hands in resignation.

I dont want much, just one of everything and two of the good stuff.

William Frisbee · Post by **William Frisbee** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 9:43 am

Thaddeus,

Don't you DARE change your persona till you buy these arms and legs from me. =)

That will at least give you two good arms and two good legs.

[This message has been edited by Evil_Merlin (edited 03-14-2003).]

white mountain armoury · Fri Mar 14, 2003 11:24 am

The corinthian is something dear to me, i wont attempt to build one untill i have the time to properly approach it.
Part of the reason ive stopped taking orders besides my health is so that i can try new items, i am so busy making things ive made befor that i am not able to practice new techniques.
Helmets ill address in that time will be a roman infantry helm, gallic type likely.
15TH cent kettels and sallets.
Onion ptopped helms will be addressed as well.
Possibly the corintian as well.
But befor any of that will be pointed 15th cent arm defences. Its been years since ive built limb armour

William Frisbee · Post by **William Frisbee** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 11:40 am

I's still love to see you do a nice pair of 15th century gauntlets. I know your standing on gauntlets but I would very much like to see your work in something that too many people simply ignore and wear crap.

WaaaghBoss · Post by **WaaaghBoss** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:56 pm

I would love to see a 15th century kettle hat and matching bevor (non SCA type). I'd even buy it! :-)

OH yeah, and a sallet (German style) that also works with the bevor...
And a nice big raise from my boss so I can afford all the stuff I want...
Great work Adam! Can't wait to see what you come up with next!
~Kevin

Xanthier · Post by **Xanthier** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 1:10 pm

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by White Mountain Armoury:
roman infantry helm, gallic type likely.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uh oh.. You're building more roman helms.. Time to start saving my pennies..

Dagisd · Post by **Dagisd** » Fri Mar 14, 2003 3:52 pm

Methinks Adam needs a shop monkey

white mountain armoury · Fri Mar 14, 2003 4:48 pm

No, no shop monkey for me, I require solitude to work.

broinnfinn · Post by **broinnfinn** » Tue Mar 18, 2003 9:29 am

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by White Mountain Armoury:
The corinthian is something dear to me, i wont attempt to build one untill i have the time to properly approach it.
Part of the reason ive stopped taking orders besides my health is so that i can try new items, i am so busy making things ive made befor that i am not able to practice new techniques.
Helmets ill address in that time will be a roman infantry helm, gallic type likely.
15TH cent kettels and sallets.
Onion ptopped helms will be addressed as well.
Possibly the corintian as well.
But befor any of that will be pointed 15th cent arm defences. Its been years since ive built limb armour<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, if you do experiment with the onion tops, let me know. My husband will be interested. He has an Eastern European persona, and it is so hard to find a helm that looks right with the rest of his stuff.

Broinnfinn