Jurgen wrote:
I've seen the helicopters (Apache, Cobra? I don't remember, it was over 10 years ago) fly over the battle field at least twice while standing around waiting to fight. It wasn't a missing man formation, and the military guys I know were talking about whatever maneuver it was that the choppers were practicing.
Yep. Has nothing to do with us. Wrote my state senator, thats just where they practice. After a LOT of complaints, i think the ANG agreed not to do it during pennsic anymore.
Caveat Emptor.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another. Anatole France
myq13 wrote:I'm gonna back track on something I said earlier. I said that not all Tuchux are a-holes. I've changed my mind. If you hang out with a group that has a-holes in it, and you don't do anything to correct the behavior of the a-holes, or worse yet, try to protect them, and instead to stay with them, then you are an a-hole.
Then you better get rid of the chivalry.
I think I already covered this...
In the 24 years I have been going to Pennsic I have seen individuals of just about every group, Trimaris included, loose their minds on the field and behave badly. Knights, Kings, and Dukes had bad days as much as anyone else. Let's deal with the individuals as incidents happen and leave stereotyping to other venues.
The Civ has as many assholes as any other group just out of statistical probablility. They just have a highly visible identifier and there are a bunch of them... kind of like the Tuchux. Or guys who fight in bright red armour.
muttman wrote:I'm pretty skeeved out living in a surveillance society in day to day life. Not keen on the idea of adding the concept to my hobby and escape and having drones loom overhead while I get my medieval on.
By "not keen" I mean I'm dead nuts against it and will have no part of it.
Come up with a better way to keep douchnozzles in line.
Or don't. I see the douchnozzles as a less odious alternative to surveillance drones
You do realize the military flies over us at pennsic at least once for combat training. The planes use us on the field as target practice. In the end your all ready being watched their. This is just being used for safety and the instant replay rather than target practice. In addition all of the battles are all ready recorded to for the yearly video. Tons of people are out taking photos as well and recording on personal devices. In the end your all ready being watch.
Uhh.. the military fly a missing man at most pennsics, at dusk or later, when nobody is on the field.
There are several reasons for this.. none are "target practice"
I watched them fly over last year and the year before. My military friend is the one that told me what they where doing. It was planes not helicopters (though I do know they had done them in years past) and they made multiple passes over the field. Apparently its a fairly big deal as it offers a unique opportunity that they rarely get large moving combat lines for target practice.
Unless a Puff goes over, Herkies aren't combat planes.
Caveat Emptor.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another. Anatole France
Nikias wrote:
I watched them fly over last year and the year before. My military friend is the one that told me what they where doing. It was planes not helicopters (though I do know they had done them in years past) and they made multiple passes over the field. Apparently its a fairly big deal as it offers a unique opportunity that they rarely get large moving combat lines for target practice.
House Wolfhaven
Excellence in all we do.
Integrity first.
Service to the dream.
Ok. Read through all 6 pages of this thread. First off, I have been a knight of AnTir for 30+ years. I have been to pennsic on a number of occasions. I have hung out with the Tuchux and was allowed to camp inside their area my last year at pennsic. Are all the tuchux rule breaking dicks? No. Are a couple of them? Probably. So are some members of the chivalry and some royal peers. Last couple of trips to Pennsic, I took off my white belt, put on leather armor and fought in their group. Let me tell you it is an eye opening experience. For all the talk of "cheating tuchux" I can tell you that it is a two way street! I have seen some pretty underhanded and low crap pulled by SCA fighters of rank against the tuchux and not get called for it. How about we start cleaning up the fighting at pennsic in general and apply the rules across the board. Lets have the balls to pull the card of the UberDuke that can't be kiled with a howitser and the knight the polearms people in the back of the head as the person is on their hands and knees. Saw both happen, thank you very much. The tuchux are easy to to hate and are an easy target. If you want a fun war, deal with all the shitheads of all affiliations and not just the ones that are easy targets. Have the testicular fortitude to yank the cards of a couple of the royal peers problem children and make it stick. The tuchux are just people, just like every other person that puts on gear and fights at pennsic. It is just that some people are more easily protected from having punishment dropped on them because of rank and politics.
Syr Garan Steingrimson, KSCA
Experienced knight looking for new challenges
In continual search for better ways to hit my friends with swords!
(actually, I will hit them with anything that comes to hand)
"Stare ac pugnare" (Stand and Fight)
Garan Steingrimson wrote:Ok. Read through all 6 pages of this thread. First off, I have been a knight of AnTir for 30+ years. I have been to pennsic on a number of occasions. I have hung out with the Tuchux and was allowed to camp inside their area my last year at pennsic. Are all the tuchux rule breaking dicks? No. Are a couple of them? Probably. So are some members of the chivalry and some royal peers. Last couple of trips to Pennsic, I took off my white belt, put on leather armor and fought in their group. Let me tell you it is an eye opening experience. For all the talk of "cheating tuchux" I can tell you that it is a two way street! I have seen some pretty underhanded and low crap pulled by SCA fighters of rank against the tuchux and not get called for it. How about we start cleaning up the fighting at pennsic in general and apply the rules across the board. Lets have the balls to pull the card of the UberDuke that can't be kiled with a howitser and the knight the polearms people in the back of the head as the person is on their hands and knees. Saw both happen, thank you very much. The tuchux are easy to to hate and are an easy target. If you want a fun war, deal with all the shitheads of all affiliations and not just the ones that are easy targets. Have the testicular fortitude to yank the cards of a couple of the royal peers problem children and make it stick. The tuchux are just people, just like every other person that puts on gear and fights at pennsic. It is just that some people are more easily protected from having punishment dropped on them because of rank and politics.
seems fair to me.
I have dealt with all types and i think its only fair to punish ALL who break the rules, even me.
I remember a white belt from Trimeres (sp?) who refused to take any hits. I finally lost my temper and shattered the helm on his head, he called equipment failure and refused to take the hit. I took myself off the field but the truth is we both should have been pulled as he was fighting unsafe and causing more problems with his behavior and I was going to collapse his gorget on my next hit with how angry i was at his cheating. Hell some might remember this way back in Gothic... something single digit lol its been too long.
We do need to enforce the rules and i agree that setting an example with fierce punishment is a good idea, but only punish those who do wrong, not whole groups. OH and hold ALL to the rules not just the current "bad boys".
Thorgar Wulfson wrote: I finally lost my temper and shattered the helm on his head, he called equipment failure and refused to take the hit. I took myself off the field but the truth is we both should have been pulled as he was fighting unsafe and causing more problems with his behavior and I was going to collapse his gorget on my next hit with how angry i was at his cheating. ".
How did he keep fighting with a shattered helm?
Paul the Small wrote:The spirit is wiling, but the bank account is weak.
Thorgar Wulfson wrote: I finally lost my temper and shattered the helm on his head, he called equipment failure and refused to take the hit. I took myself off the field but the truth is we both should have been pulled as he was fighting unsafe and causing more problems with his behavior and I was going to collapse his gorget on my next hit with how angry i was at his cheating. ".
How did he keep fighting with a shattered helm?
once they woke him up after the hold call he called equipment failure and said i didn't hit him hard enough to count. I had already bruised his whole right side and moved him off his feet with repeated hits, all of which he called "light". I was so mad i was seeing red and (afterwards) glad i couldn't find live steel to run him through with.
edit: he asked for a spare helm and wanted to continue the match.
A few and I'd hit them all, at first with normal force then with increasing force until I was leaving creases when I scored armor instead of flesh.
I was told later that he was the type who hated losing to non-knights. I took awhile to cool off lol I'm a weeeeeee bit competitive and I hate cheaters. I have a bad habit of not feeling hits for a few seconds once the adrenaline starts singing to me so I do my best to call any hit once I feel it (even 5 seconds later >.<). However the force I was using would have killed an unarmored person. I should never have let it go that far but neither should the marshals present.
I was told the marshals did not want to upset the visiting crowns. Is that true *shrugs* dunno, just know that if rules we're called well it would never have gotten that far.
Diglach Mac Cein wrote:I haven't read anyone NOT advocate enforcing the rules on everyone.
Did I miss it somewhere?
.
Isn't that the entire premise?
The way I understood the people who are saying enforce them for everyone are saying that they disagree with the concept of singing out the chux as a group.
Paul the Small wrote:The spirit is wiling, but the bank account is weak.
Diglach Mac Cein wrote:I haven't read anyone NOT advocate enforcing the rules on everyone.
Did I miss it somewhere?
.
Isn't that the entire premise?
The way I understood the people who are saying enforce them for everyone are saying that they disagree with the concept of singing out the chux as a group.
It does seem like some of the posters want to punish many for the crimes of a few in order to send a message. I'm not sure that's a good message for the SCA. I a personal example of when equal rule enforcement failed, while trying to say we should work on enforcing our rules we have better, before penalizing a whole group just to prove something.
If a group is doing something wrong then address the group and have them self police. If that fails then punish the guilty parties . If it's the leadership pushing bad ideals then punish them not the members.
Sorry to be ranting I have seen things like this go sour in the past and would hate to see that here.
I have a great deal of respect for Garan's view on this, I know him to be a measured man.
Through 11 Pennsic wars, my experience has been different. I have had so many bad experiences so many different years with the Tuchux I would be happy as heck to see them gone. I know there are good eggs amongst them but it has gone too far for me to shed a tear over their loss.
A few of the highlights....
- 2 young tuchux wrapping the ankles of myself and Alden of the West in the woods battle after dying. I estimate I hit the guy about 17 times in the back and he still refused to let go of my ankles though was fine getting mad about me hitting him.
- Tuchux polearm fighter dropping his glaive and going kung-fu on me in the field battle. He punched me 4-5 times and kicked me twice before being dragged off by other Tuchux.
- Large tuchux blindside ran over on of our spearmen, flattened him and landed on him, putting him out of Pennsic for the rest of the war and almost putting him in the hospital. I believe he couldn't fight for 3-4 months. It actually knocked the english out of him, no joke.
- (last year) kicked and punched by 5+ different Tuchux on the edge of one of the field battles. I will gladly admit that I lost it after the battle.
- 3 different Tuchux kicking and stomping on me on the ground after their unit passed over my dead body. No accident, no cause for it, just did it for laughs
I am glad others have better experiences than I...I have really tried. I have been to their camp and met some of them, I have fought several times in their tourney and got to know one of their better tourney fighters back in the day.
At the end of the day, I won't be out there campaigning for them to go, I try to be and let be. But if it is decided that they no longer fight at Pennsic I will shed no tears.
If you ask me, the Crowns of the Midrealm and East should just decline to have them in their armies. let them fight on their own on the fringes....
Thorgar Wulfson wrote:It does seem like some of the posters want to punish many for the crimes of a few in order to send a message. I'm not sure that's a good message for the SCA. I a personal example of when equal rule enforcement failed, while trying to say we should work on enforcing our rules we have better, before penalizing a whole group just to prove something.
If a group is doing something wrong then address the group and have them self police. If that fails then punish the guilty parties . If it's the leadership pushing bad ideals then punish them not the members.
I thought that the problem was it was impossible to spot which of the Tuchux had broken the rules as they dive into the crowd and the rest of the group cover fort hem. Hence the only alternative is to punish all of them?
If I have not seen as far as others, it is because there were giants standing on my shoulders.
Pennsic is like a badly-written popular novel, or possibly a bad movie. I like to think of it in the same vein as the Twilight franchise.
I like neither the novel or the movie. I do not like the "good guys" because most are not good. I do not like the "bad guys" because they are eternally 14 years old, and have the equivalent of sparkles on their faces.
The storyline is lame. The characters dull and shallow.
"I am trying to be a great burden to my squires. The inner changes we look for will not take place except under the weight of great burdens."
-Me
I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.
Nissan Maxima wrote:I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.
LOL! That is quite possibly the most articulate thing you have ever said!
New Signature here I come!
Insane Irish
Quote: "Nissan Maxima"
(on Pennsic) I know that movie. It is the 13th warrior. A bunch of guys in armour that doesn't match itself or anybody elses, go on a trip and argue and get drunk and get laid and then fight Tuchux.
medallion numbers. Don't we put them on stickers now?
Caveat Emptor.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another. Anatole France
And I've both seen fighters swap helmets and heard them brag about getting 'spares' inspected 'just in case they get caught'. By the time I could get a marshal's attention, they beam out.
And I've both seen fighters swap helmets and heard them brag about getting 'spares' inspected 'just in case they get caught'. By the time I could get a marshal's attention, they beam out.
What difference would "spares" make? Still has your medallion number on it.
"Oh, I loaned my helmet to that guy".. tough shit. Your number, you are out. SOrry.
Caveat Emptor.
All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another. Anatole France
